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Coronavirus
View Poll Results: When you become eligible for the Covid Vaccine, would you take it?
Yes 73 85.88%
No 6 7.06%
Unsure 6 7.06%
Voters: 85. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 16-06-2021, 13:16   #5896
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf View Post
But those standard vaccines are well proven over many years, covid vaccines are new and many people are worried about future complications.
Other vaccines were new at some point and surely people would have been concerned about future complications when these other vaccines were released?
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Old 16-06-2021, 13:30   #5897
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Re: Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by Carth View Post
Is that far removed from local councils insisting that all people working with children/vulnerable adults have to take an enhanced DBS check?

In one case you're protecting children, in the other you're protecting patients
I guess the key difference is that things like DBS and HGV licences are mandated by law whereas vaccinations are mandated by employers.
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Old 16-06-2021, 13:33   #5898
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Re: Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
I guess the key difference is that things like DBS and HGV licences are mandated by law whereas vaccinations are mandated by employers.
And abused by them to such a degree the government has legislated for filters to be applied
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Old 16-06-2021, 13:49   #5899
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Re: Coronavirus

I was thinking more about the 'Human Rights' outcry side of things. It seems to be the 'go to' place for anything that upsets people and their work conditions.

I guess including it in working contracts would trigger a few, but at the end of the day everybody has a choice of whether to work or not
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Old 16-06-2021, 14:19   #5900
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Re: Coronavirus

Is Nick Hancock seen by the PM as hopeless for his handling of the pandemic response?
Quote:
Dominic Cummings has published expletive-laden messages apparently from Boris Johnson, in which the PM brands the health secretary "hopeless".

It is the latest salvo in a bitter war of words between Mr Cummings and Matt Hancock over the handling of the coronavirus pandemic.

The PM's former aide accuses Mr Hancock of trying to rewrite history at a select committee session last week.

And he claims Mr Hancock and the PM had "repeatedly lied about failures".

"If No 10 is prepared to lie so deeply and widely about such vital issues of life and death last year, it cannot be trusted now either on Covid or any other crucial issue of war and peace," writes Mr Cummings.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-57498845
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Old 16-06-2021, 14:27   #5901
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Re: Coronavirus

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Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees View Post
Other vaccines were new at some point and surely people would have been concerned about future complications when these other vaccines were released?
New after years of testing and multiple hurdles to get over, but people weren't forced to have them against their will to keep their jobs.
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Old 16-06-2021, 14:36   #5902
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf View Post
New after years of testing and multiple hurdles to get over, but people weren't forced to have them against their will to keep their jobs.
If they're compulsory then people would have breached their contracts of employment if they didn't have those other vaccines them.

Your gripe seems to revolve the speed that the current vaccinations were brought to market. This issue has been addressed many times before including this from the BBC. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55041371
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Old 16-06-2021, 14:42   #5903
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
If they're compulsory then people would have breached their contracts of employment if they didn't have those other vaccines them.

Your gripe seems to revolve the speed that the current vaccinations were brought to market. This issue has been addressed many times before including this from the BBC. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55041371
it's not my gripe, i'm trying to understand why some people , especially those in the health services are reluctant to take the vaccines, these aren't a bunch of drunken idiots on a march these are health professionals, those very people who were being clapped and called hero's not so long ago.
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Old 16-06-2021, 14:48   #5904
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf View Post
it's not my gripe, i'm trying to understand why some people , especially those in the health services are reluctant to take the vaccines, these aren't a bunch of drunken idiots on a march these are health professionals, those very people who were being clapped and called hero's not so long ago.
Sadly some of those working in health services would be on that march. Whilst the medical evidence doesn't support them, their instincts are that the medicines have been rushed through and a few "Fakebook" posts will support such beliefs.
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Old 16-06-2021, 14:58   #5905
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Re: Coronavirus

Is there any evidence significant numbers of people in these sectors aren't getting vaccinated?

Entertainingly. JCVI are about to recommend against vaccinating children. So we invite more waves rather than herd immunity.

Good news for those that love a good lockdown to allow schools to act as petri dishes for new variants. Bad news for everyone that wants to move on.
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Old 16-06-2021, 15:18   #5906
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf View Post
New after years of testing and multiple hurdles to get over, but people weren't forced to have them against their will to keep their jobs.

Was it not the case that the amount of testing/trials is the same but compressed into a shorter time period? Everything i can find suggests that to be so

Certain NHS trusts already require clinical staff performing set procedures to have certain vaccinations, it's also a condition of employment for new clinical staff hires, failing to adhere means the offer of employment is withdrawn.

I don't see where the issue is ?

---------- Post added at 15:18 ---------- Previous post was at 15:16 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
Is there any evidence significant numbers of people in these sectors aren't getting vaccinated?

Entertainingly. JCVI are about to recommend against vaccinating children. So we invite more waves rather than herd immunity.

Good news for those that love a good lockdown to allow schools to act as petri dishes for new variants. Bad news for everyone that wants to move on.
There's a couple of reports flying around about low uptake of vaccination in care home workers.


EDIT: Here's one i found https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....07.21252972v1
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Old 16-06-2021, 15:27   #5907
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Re: Coronavirus

Just been having a look at the Pfizer vaccine details to see if there's anything controversial that might set people who work in healthcare's spidey senses tingling and got down in to the weeds on how the vaccine RNA is made up. It's very clever! You have (from beginning to end)
  • A 'do not destroy' signal at the start (ubiquitous in nature)
  • A bit that says where the RNA should be sent in the cell (ubiquitous in all complex life from yeast onwards)
  • A bit that says 'hey this is for a human protein that you need, get making' (from humans obviously)
  • The SARS-COV2 spike protein code itself, slightly modified so it doesn't 'trigger' and enter cells
  • A bit that says 'OK, you're done' which is ubiquitous in nature

So the only non-human bit is the spike protein itself.

The whole shebang has been slightly chemically modified to help it hang around a bit longer. If you get the old jewellers eyepiece out, you can even see the 'copy and paste' bits where you can drop a different spike protein in if you want to make a vaccine against a variant.
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Old 16-06-2021, 15:34   #5908
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees View Post
Was it not the case that the amount of testing/trials is the same but compressed into a shorter time period? Everything i can find suggests that to be so

Certain NHS trusts already require clinical staff performing set procedures to have certain vaccinations, it's also a condition of employment for new clinical staff hires, failing to adhere means the offer of employment is withdrawn.

I don't see where the issue is ?

---------- Post added at 15:18 ---------- Previous post was at 15:16 ----------



There's a couple of reports flying around about low uptake of vaccination in care home workers.


EDIT: Here's one i found https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....07.21252972v1
Does that tell you what effect it will have on the human body in five years time, what if thousands of people start to die of the same thing and it's traced back to one of the vaccines , only the passage of time will let us know and as far as i know there is no way to jump forward five years to check.
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Old 16-06-2021, 15:42   #5909
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf View Post
Does that tell you what effect it will have on the human body in five years time, what if thousands of people start to die of the same thing and it's traced back to one of the vaccines , only the passage of time will let us know and as far as i know there is no way to jump forward five years to check.
But that’s not the reason why clinical trials have previously taken longer. They weren’t testing for long-term side effects, it was simply a function of available resources. Exceptional levels of resource have been poured into covid vaccine development and decisions that might have sat in a queue for deliberation and investment decision months down the line have been pushed to the top of the in-tray.

There is nothing about the way this vaccine works that gives reason to think that serious side effects will appear after an extended period. On the other hand, after the time we’ve just had, we can absolutely quantify the loss of life and economic damage caused by spending 5 years pursuing further trial data.
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Old 16-06-2021, 15:52   #5910
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Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris View Post
But that’s not the reason why clinical trials have previously taken longer. They weren’t testing for long-term side effects, it was simply a function of available resources. Exceptional levels of resource have been poured into covid vaccine development and decisions that might have sat in a queue for deliberation and investment decision months down the line have been pushed to the top of the in-tray.

There is nothing about the way this vaccine works that gives reason to think that serious side effects will appear after an extended period. On the other hand, after the time we’ve just had, we can absolutely quantify the loss of life and economic damage caused by spending 5 years pursuing further trial data.
Then why are there so many health professionals refusing it?
reported earlier on the news 150,000 nhs workers not vaccinated and i think it was 15,000 care home workers
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