Britain outside the EU

Originally Posted by GrimUpNorth

But they got Brexit done!

That would be the whole point of this topic, but well spotted anyway.

[1andrew1]

Daily Telegraph joins the Bregreters!

An editorial column in The Telegraph – where Mr Johnson formerly worked and known to be his favoured newspaper – suggested that Brexit was now doomed to failure.

Admitting “almost nothing has been achieved”, the Brexit-backing newspaper added: “With no plan to unleash its potential, it can only fester, stoking tensions in Northern Ireland and strangling small firms with red tape.”

“It is time for the Leave camp to start saying the unsayable: the Tories have made such a hash of Brexit that the project is probably now unsalvageable,” it added.

The column marks the rise of so-called “Bregret” or “Regrexit”, with polls indicating that many Leave voters believe Brexit is going badly and a growing number are in favour of rejoining the EU.

One in three Tory voters (33 per cent) believe Brexit has created more problems than it has solved, an Opinium survey in early January. A separate YouGov poll found 30 per cent of Leave voters said the UK should now forge closer ties with Brussels....

Meanwhile, Asda chair Stuart Rose said on Tuesday the UK was suffering from the “catastrophic” impact of Brexit and should consider a closer trading relationship with Brussels.

“I can smell it – we have suffered. We are the only economy I think in the G7, possibly in the G20, who has actually not yet recovered to pre-Covid levels. That tells you something,” Lord Rose told LBC.

The Tory peer said trade between the UK and the EU was “not flowing smoothly”, adding: “We can call it the Mickey Mouse agreement as far as I’m concerned. What we need to do is we need to have a stronger trading relationship.”

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...4d991475fb1e23

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

My point is simple. You're a sour Remainer. Leaving the EU, which we decided to do, requires adjustments to taxation at various levels.

And, where have I "welcomed" anything? You really are sour.

I am sensing, and it is a common theme now the reality, forecast in advance, has come to pass and that is one of anger & denial. Anger in being proved wrong and denial where that is literally all that remains of the project.

BTW, "we" did not decide to leave the EU. The tragic irony is that the Tories demand, in the name of "democracy", that the Unions achieve a minimum percentage in ballots for strike action. If the Tories applied their own rules for Brexit, it would never have happened.

Polls all over the EU and now far more in favour of staying in the EU than they were. All because of the self inflicted disaster that the UK played out on the world stage.

Some glory and rejoice in our national humiliation, I'd rather, like the Telegraph, us get back on the road to prosperity and align ourselves again with the EU.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by ianch99

I am sensing, and it is a common theme now the reality, forecast in advance, has come to pass and that is one of anger & denial. Anger in being proved wrong and denial where that is literally all that remains of the project.

BTW, "we" did not decide to leave the EU. The tragic irony is that the Tories demand, in the name of "democracy", that the Unions achieve a minimum percentage in ballots for strike action. If the Tories applied their own rules for Brexit, it would never have happened.

Polls all over the EU and now far more in favour of staying in the EU than they were. All because of the self inflicted disaster that the UK played out on the world stage.

Some glory and rejoice in our national humiliation, I'd rather, like the Telegraph, us get back on the road to prosperity and align ourselves again with the EU.

Surely not! Btw, there was a UK wide referendum; Leave won; we left the EU. That's obviously democratic.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Surely not! Btw, there was a UK wide referendum; Leave won; we left the EU. That's obviously democratic.

Yes but the definition of insanity is ".. doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results”. The con trick failed as it always was going to. Economic gravity demanded it.

Yes, we can continue getting poorer while the economy is remodelled for benefits of the ultra wealthy but that was not what was sold to those who put their faith in Leave. The con has been revealed and the snake oil salesmen are still selling their product.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Yes but the definition of insanity is ".. doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results”. The con trick failed as it always was going to. Economic gravity demanded it.

Yes, we can continue getting poorer while the economy is remodelled for benefits of the ultra wealthy but that was not what was sold to those who put their faith in Leave. The con has been revealed and the snake oil salesmen are still selling their product.

There was no con. Just an unbelievably incompetent government.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

There was no con. Just an unbelievably incompetent government.

How many more Prime Ministers do you need to prove that you can't put lipstick on a pig. You've had four of them!

[tweetiepooh]

So are we saying that we vote to leave but the job of implementing the result is being performed by those who want to remain (and maybe be part of a federal Europe) so have deliberately fouled up the process?


That's not to excuse bad policies though.


We do have to remember that we have had COVID, Ukraine and other happenings that were not in the road map and required some redirection. Brexit would have been hard enough without all of that happening too.

No, we aren’t saying that…

(Well, some people are, but that’s more about the "well, we can’t deliver what we promised, so we need to hold some else responsible" approach rather than being evidence-based…).

Remember all the benefits listed by Jacob Rees-Mogg when he was given the job of Brexit Opportunities Minister?

No, me neither…

[Sephiroth]

The Guvmin has gone mad. For example, introducing the UK equivalent of CE marking without formal equivalence agreement with the EU. Adds burden to UK companies and affects exports to the EU. We are failing to adequately plow a furrow forward - for example allowing British battery production to fail. We are taxed to buggery because Truss screwed up in spades. Equivalence does not destroy our sovereignty; it is pragmatic and supports business.

I am still in favour of being outside the EU but I want it done properly. Btw, a serious fight of the NI Protocol seems to be looming unless the Guvmin bends over. The ECJ is the issue and I’m sure there’s a middle way if entrenched groups can grasp the need for compromise. The important thing to achieve is that for all practical purposes, NI is part of the UK and we can send stuff over there without customs documentation, other than perhaps 1 page.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Hugh

No, we aren’t saying that…

(Well, some people are, but that’s more about the "well, we can’t deliver what we promised, so we need to hold some else responsible" approach rather than being evidence-based…).

Remember all the benefits listed by Jacob Rees-Mogg when he was given the job of Brexit Opportunities Minister?

No, me neither…

TBF He did mention that we would be able to have more powerful vacuum cleaners

---------- Post added at 12:49 ---------- Previous post was at 12:37 ----------

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

There was no con. Just an unbelievably incompetent government.

Just IMHO The problem is now that Brexit is done (or is still in the process of being done depending on your view) there hasn't been anything of observable value to the average person in the street. People may say that we're free of X and Y but if that new found freedom isn't put to use in a way that the country can benefit from, then simply what is the point ?

Is it a case of an incompetent government? or, are there no actual benefits for the average joe/josephine. apart from vacuum cleaners?

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

TBF He did mention that we would be able to have more powerful vacuum cleaners

---------- Post added at 12:49 ---------- Previous post was at 12:37 ----------



Just IMHO The problem is now that Brexit is done (or is still in the process of being done depending on your view) there hasn't been anything of observable value to the average person in the street. People may say that we're free of X and Y but if that new found freedom isn't put to use in a way that the country can benefit from, then simply what is the point ?

Is it a case of an incompetent government? or, are there no actual benefits for the average joe/josephine. apart from vacuum cleaners?

You point out that there have been no tangible benefits and you are correct. You forgot the immense cost in loss of tax revenues, loss of skilled EU workers, red tape hitting Just In Time systems, the list literally goes on and on and on. People are starting to see the real costs in their pocket and they are rightly wanting to know why. The con men are taking people for suckers (pun intended).

It is a case of utmost delusion that the promised Vote Leave paradise would have been had "if it wasn't for those pesky kids"*

*paraphrase as my homage to my childhood TV watching Scooby Doo

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

The Guvmin has gone mad. For example, introducing the UK equivalent of CE marking without formal equivalence agreement with the EU. Adds burden to UK companies and affects exports to the EU. We are failing to adequately plow a furrow forward - for example allowing British battery production to fail. We are taxed to buggery because Truss screwed up in spades. Equivalence does not destroy our sovereignty; it is pragmatic and supports business.

I fear the government is too worried about keeping the ERG on board to adopt such policies as equivalence. If they did, there would be even more whingeing from that camp about a betrayal and Remainers sabotaging Brexit.

[Sephiroth]

Leaving the EU means we don’t have to do what Brussels demands. Simples.

That the Guvmin can screw everything up is lamentable. All they had to do was provide a business friendly growth environment and instead Truss trashed what was already fragile economy.

But we must not rejoin the EU. Obviously.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by ianch99

You point out that there have been no tangible benefits and you are correct. You forgot the immense cost in loss of tax revenues, loss of skilled EU workers, red tape hitting Just In Time systems, the list literally goes on and on and on. People are starting to see the real costs in their pocket and they are rightly wanting to know why. The con men are taking people for suckers (pun intended).

It is a case of utmost delusion that the promised Vote Leave paradise would have been had "if it wasn't for those pesky kids"*

*paraphrase as my homage to my childhood TV watching Scooby Doo

I dont need to point the costs out, they're being repeatedly being pointed out by various media outlets

---------- Post added at 13:59 ---------- Previous post was at 13:57 ----------

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Leaving the EU means we don’t have to do what Brussels demands. Simples.

That the Guvmin can screw everything up is lamentable. All they had to do was provide a business friendly growth environment and instead Truss trashed what was already fragile economy.

But we must not rejoin the EU. Obviously.

I think you've just made my point, rhetorical statement delivered but with zero benefit to the average member of the public.

The issues for business with regards to Brexit have long proceeded Truss and her shambolic tenure. Don't try and scapegoat her, you're better than that.

I'd bet that ultimately we will rejoin the EU, it may take twenty years possibly even longer but I'll wager that what happens.