Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
04-11-2021, 12:08
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#31
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Architect of Ideas
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Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
An embarrassing climb down but at least we know the direction the Tories want to take us in. At some point they’ll come back with the same proposals just like the Paul Dacre OFCOM farce.
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04-11-2021, 12:14
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#32
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Cable Forum Team
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Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
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Originally Posted by Maggy
I'm just pleased that common sense has prevailed.
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But the sleaze reputation won’t be washed off so easily. I think “power” has gone to their heads in No. 10, power borrowed from Coronavirus Act and just thinking that they can ride over roughshod in other aspects of Parliamentary traditions and conventions. I voted for the Conservatives, but the rules can’t be bent like this under any circumstances.
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04-11-2021, 12:15
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#33
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cf.mega pornstar
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Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
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Originally Posted by tweetiepooh
As I read it the suspension was of long enough duration that he could face deselection so a right to appeal the findings is needed before serving a sentence like that.
If the appeal fails then sentence should stand.
The whole system needs to be made much clearer but with proper checks in place and a clear appeals system that may kick in earlier if the punishment meted could have longer consequences that desired.
Plus parliamentary suspension should be the least of worries for those found guilty of corruption and the like, but all should be done in a calm and proper way, no witch hunts or whitewashing. And I'm sure that not all MP's simply voted along party lines but I'd hope many would thoughtfully consider all the implications of votes which is not something the great public always do.
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If you or I displayed these levels of corruption and dishonesty we'd be in trouble with the police, I'm fine with that if they want to scrap the privilege of investigating each other, you know because they can't be trusted and be subject to the same rules and consequences as the rest of us
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ
Taken from Twitter earlier:
In 2018, when Iain Paisley Jr was suspended by the Committee on Standards for failing to declare two family holidays paid for by the Sri Lankan Government, the Tories didn’t change the rules because ‘the process is unfair’.
In 2019, when Labour’s Keith Vaz was suspended by the Committee on Standards for expressing a willingness to purchase cocaine for sex workers, the Tories didn’t change the rules because ‘the process is unfair’.
In 2020, when Tory Conor Burns was suspended by the Committee on Standards for intimidating a member of the public, the Tories didn’t change the rules because ‘the process is unfair’.
Boris Johnson’s mate, Owen Paterson, reportedly takes half a million pounds and is suspended by the Committee on Standards for "repeatedly used his privileged position to benefit two companies for whom he was a paid consultant, and that this has brought the house into disrepute" and that "no previous case of paid advocacy has seen so many breaches or such a clear pattern of behaviour in failing to separate private and public interests", the Tories vote to CHANGE THE RULES because ‘the process is unfair’.
---------- Post added at 12:11 ---------- Previous post was at 12:07 ----------
I strongly doubt “common sense” had anything to do with this latest u-turn.
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Of course it didn't, they want to be above any rules or laws and only backed down because in the press and publics eyes they'd gone to far. The more I see and hear I'm not even convinced this was about Patterson, he was a useful tool to use so bozo isn't investigated for his decorating or holidays, the ppe and test and trace fiasco/ thefts, hancocks sister etc etc etc
I heard earlier Krazy Kwarteng being asked if he could give one example of bozo promoting or upholding Standards in public life and the only thing he could answer with is we promised to get brexit done and did, really, seriously really and that exonerates the cabal from anything evermore?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy
I'm just pleased that common sense has prevailed.
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and what, we just forget about it because common sense prevailed, they'd love that I'm sure
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04-11-2021, 12:38
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#34
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Dec 2013
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Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
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Originally Posted by jfman
An embarrassing climb down but at least we know the direction the Tories want to take us in. At some point they’ll come back with the same proposals just like the Paul Dacre OFCOM farce.
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The Nigel Farage playbook - keep on pushing something until you get the "right" vote.
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04-11-2021, 12:41
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#35
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The Invisible Woman
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Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy
If you or I displayed these levels of corruption and dishonesty we'd be in trouble with the police, I'm fine with that if they want to scrap the privilege of investigating each other, you know because they can't be trusted and be subject to the same rules and consequences as the rest of us
Of course it didn't, they want to be above any rules or laws and only backed down because in the press and publics eyes they'd gone to far. The more I see and hear I'm not even convinced this was about Patterson, he was a useful tool to use so bozo isn't investigated for his decorating or holidays, the ppe and test and trace fiasco/ thefts, hancocks sister etc etc etc
I heard earlier Krazy Kwarteng being asked if he could give one example of bozo promoting or upholding Standards in public life and the only thing he could answer with is we promised to get brexit done and did, really, seriously really and that exonerates the cabal from anything evermore?
and what, we just forget about it because common sense prevailed, they'd love that I'm sure
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No!Not at all We just appreciate that even they can realise when they have taken a step too far.It's basically all we have against these muppets.
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04-11-2021, 12:48
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#36
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cf.mega poster
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Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
If they had an ounce of common sense they wouldn’t have set themselves up for such an obvious own-goal. Somebody, somewhere has finally managed to kick them into crisis management mode; they’ve started to realise what an appalling screw up this is and now a sense of self-preservation has prevailed.
Someone’s head should roll for this. I am having a hard time believing that all the most senior members of government were fully engaged - my suspicion is that due to COP26 someone junior-ish has led the process and the senior cabinet has been distracted enough to simply accept assurances that the planning has been done, the party is on board and opposition complaints can be swept aside. But whoever that is now ought to be considering their position.
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Fish rot from the head down though a scape goat might be found necessary.
Johnson's government is more a populist than Conservative government and as such aims to get away with as much as it can.
You only have to look at the PPE fast lane for ministers and and the initial protection of Cummins with his rose garden speech to know the government's modus operandi.
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04-11-2021, 13:58
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#37
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Remoaner
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Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
Someone’s head should roll for this. I am having a hard time believing that all the most senior members of government were fully engaged - my suspicion is that due to COP26 someone junior-ish has led the process and the senior cabinet has been distracted enough to simply accept assurances that the planning has been done, the party is on board and opposition complaints can be swept aside. But whoever that is now ought to be considering their position.
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The whips might be responsible for misreading the mood within the party and the opposition and some senior strategist might have misread how the public/media would react but the significance of what they were proposing cannot have been missed by the senior members of the Government. It's just bad advice may have meant they felt they could get away with it without too much cost.
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04-11-2021, 14:01
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#38
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Trollsplatter
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Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien
The whips might be responsible for misreading the mood within the party and the opposition and some senior strategist might have misread how the public/media would react but the significance of what they were proposing cannot have been missed by the senior members of the Government. It's just bad advice may have meant they felt they could get away with it without too much cost.
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The u-turn has been too quick and too comprehensive for senior cabinet members to have been fully up to speed and supportive of this. Don’t get me wrong, if their eyes were off the ball they shoulder their share of the blame, but I don’t think this can have been initiated, planned and signed off at the top. It has been put together lower down the food chain and signed off by ministers who have had their minds on other things.
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04-11-2021, 14:17
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#39
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Architect of Ideas
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
The u-turn has been too quick and too comprehensive for senior cabinet members to have been fully up to speed and supportive of this. Don’t get me wrong, if their eyes were off the ball they shoulder their share of the blame, but I don’t think this can have been initiated, planned and signed off at the top. It has been put together lower down the food chain and signed off by ministers who have had their minds on other things.
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Unsurprisingly the Government that can do no wrong has… yet again… not done any wrong.
Your confidence in their competence far, far exceeds mine.
I’m curious at what point would/could they make a mistake that can’t be blamed on junior ministers, the civil service, a ramshackle group of behavioural scientists/sociologists, the private sector not delivering, etc.
It’s equally likely, if not more probable, at a senior level they believed they could rush this through precisely because everyone else was distracted by COP26. The state propaganda machine that is the BBC - via Laura Kuessenberg - pushing the narrative that this was a Westminster village story didn’t spawn itself into existence all by itself.
Last edited by jfman; 04-11-2021 at 14:23.
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04-11-2021, 14:22
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#40
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Remoaner
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Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
The u-turn has been too quick and too comprehensive for senior cabinet members to have been fully up to speed and supportive of this. Don’t get me wrong, if their eyes were off the ball they shoulder their share of the blame, but I don’t think this can have been initiated, planned and signed off at the top. It has been put together lower down the food chain and signed off by ministers who have had their minds on other things.
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It required a Parliamentary vote, Boris Johnson to have lines prepared at PMQs and Rees-Mogg to lead the debate on the vote in the Commons. It's not a particularly complicated vote either. How could they not have been aware of what they were doing?
If this were a small part of a bill they overlooked or a Government department implementing something off somewhere else then you can understand how they might have missed it. But this required those very ministers to argue in favour of the vote in the commons and march through the lobby?
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04-11-2021, 14:24
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#41
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Architect of Ideas
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Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien
It required a Parliamentary vote, Boris Johnson to have lines prepared at PMQs and Rees-Mogg to lead the debate on the vote in the Commons. It's not a particularly complicated vote either. How could they not have been aware of what they were doing?
If this were a small part of a bill they overlooked or a Government department implementing something off somewhere else then you can understand how they might have missed it. But this required those very ministers to argue in favour of the vote in the commons and march through the lobby?
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Spot on.
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04-11-2021, 14:37
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#42
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Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
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04-11-2021, 14:38
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#43
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Architect of Ideas
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Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave42
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Why stay when you can make much more in the private sector
Would be interesting to see if the fact he is no longer an MP means his private sector income reduces. After all, he will have all this extra time it really shouldn’t if he was genuinely being paid for his skills or insight.
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04-11-2021, 15:10
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#44
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Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
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Originally Posted by Dave42
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Good.
Next topic please.
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04-11-2021, 15:15
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#45
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Re: Owen Paterson: Anger as Tory MP avoids suspension in rule shake-up
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman
Why stay when you can make much more in the private sector
Would be interesting to see if the fact he is no longer an MP means his private sector income reduces. After all, he will have all this extra time it really shouldn’t if he was genuinely being paid for his skills or insight.
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True, being an MP was hindering his money making !
Don't know why anyone is surprised by this. This Govt is rotten to the Boris core. We've swapped hedgemonic Brussels and given the absolute power to an even more corrupt set up. Well done us !
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