Police to get tough on internet trolls.

Originally Posted by Paul

Good grief, and you/they wonder why abuse happens.

Postions of power (or any position) should be given based on ABILITY, not if they are a woman, black, or lesbian.

This woman agrees.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I don't see how this can be said to be an equality measure. It's not. It's preferential treatment, and that is not acceptable.

Totally agree - but measures have to be in place to minimise/mitigate unconscious bias (as I’m sure you know, being ex-HR).

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I don't see how this can be said to be an equality measure. It's not. It's preferential treatment, and that is not acceptable.

That's how the Conservative Party works and I've not seen you criticising it there.https://framexec.com/on-politics-and...gotten-legacy/

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Totally agree - but measures have to be in place to minimise/mitigate unconscious bias (as I’m sure you know, being ex-HR).

Those measures must relate to the prevention of discrimination, not treating those people as if they were the master race, giving them preference above everyone else. That is what causes resentment.

---------- Post added at 12:16 ---------- Previous post was at 12:11 ----------

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

That's how the Conservative Party works and I've not seen you criticising it there.https://framexec.com/on-politics-and...gotten-legacy/

I don’t recall anyone on this forum creating a list of all the things they would criticise.

For the record, I believe ability should be recognised and optimised. and unlawful discrimination should always be called out.

I do not believe in positive discrimination but I believe everyone should be given equal opportunities in line with their capabilities and experience.

---------- Post added at 12:21 ---------- Previous post was at 12:16 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/f...ands-f066vxtm8

Fair enough, I should have said that the Bill will not go ahead in its present form. Clearly, we still need to deal with the other issues it covers such as child porn.

Note that Truss is concerned with the freedom of speech, as we are.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Those measures must relate to the prevention of discrimination, not treating those people as if they were the master race, giving them preference above everyone else. That is what causes resentment.

---------- Post added at 12:16 ---------- Previous post was at 12:11 ----------



I don’t recall anyone on this forum creating a list of all the things they would criticise.

For the record, I believe ability should be recognised and optimised. and unlawful discrimination should always be called out.

I do not believe in positive discrimination but I believe everyone should be given equal opportunities in line with their capabilities and experience.

---------- Post added at 12:21 ---------- Previous post was at 12:16 ----------



Fair enough, I should have said that the Bill will not go ahead in its present form. Clearly, we still need to deal with the other issues it covers such as child porn.

Note that Truss is concerned with the freedom of speech, as we are.

Speaking of unconcious bias...

[peanut]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Speaking of unconcious bias...

Well I knew what he meant, and I'm sure everyone else too, as you can't help yourself it's that kind of nit picking that is the causes of all this.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

There is never any excuse for abuse.

Unless you go to your local dungeon and pay Mistress Diabolic for it.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Unless you go to your local dungeon and pay Mistress Diabolic for it.

Well you would know

In fact thinking about it under the new regulation someone might find my post offensive on your behalf and report me to the offense overloads

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Speaking of unconcious bias...

Unconscious bias is another white elephant.

I’m not saying it doesn’t exist, but bias exists across all race, sex, age, class, looks. Etc you name it.

To look at it at a base level, if you were male and recruiting for a position and two equally qualified women applied. One looked like Beyoncé and one was a fat ginger girl from Rotherham I’m pretty sure I know which way your unconscious bias would lean. You could swap old ginger, for bald, short fat bloke = same result.

It isn’t just black people and woman that are victims, everyone is and I would argue older people are the most.

Everybody has bias, that’s just the way it is.

Positive discrimination, quotas, etc is just discrimination and it always seems to go just one way.

We recently just had Women in Engineering day. A big fan fair to get more women in engineering as they are under-represented. No problem with that. But firms like VM are pursuing 50/50 representation in their engineering base. Which is unrealistic and not good for the business as they’re not getting the best engineers.

But where is the men in nursing day, men in primary teaching day, men in caring day?

We should do more to encourage everyone to pursue the paths they want, but do you think the reason there aren’t many women engineers is because they don’t want to do it?

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Speaking of unconcious bias...

Don’t be ridiculous, Hugh.Is there nothing you won’t argue about?

‘Those people ‘ were those that were mentioned. Obviously.

This kind of pedantry is what many of us are concerned about with this legislation. Disrupters will be able to pick up and complain about anything.

Thanks for making the point for me, though.

[RichardCoulter]

Psychologists urge the Government to make class a protected characteristic under the Equality Act:

https://www.newstatesman.com/society...bery-be-banned

If successful, terms such as Toff, Chav etc would no longer be permitted.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Psychologists urge the Government to make class a protected characteristic under the Equality Act:

https://www.newstatesman.com/society...bery-be-banned

If successful, terms such as Toff, Chav etc would no longer be permitted.

Oh just f…. Off.

I am tempted just to leave it at that…..actually, I will.

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

There is never any excuse for abuse.

Right, the world is perfect, we all get along, sitting by the lake, in the warm sunshine, singing Kum-ba-ya every evening. I'm sure you live in your own little fantasy world.

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

I do agree that people should get jobs on merit, but I think that the idea is that, where people are of equal merit, then underrepresented groups should be prioritised.

You dont seem to know what to believe, since you contradict yourself here.
Prioritising "underrepresented groups" (whatever that means) is the opposite of merit, its called bias.

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

The rationale is that non disabled, white, straight men have had the upper hand for a long time, so it's time to give those that have traditionally been oppressed a chance. Doing so should also assist in creating a fairer society in the longer term.

The rationale is complete nonsense.
Creating resentment and disharmony is not going to lead to "a fairer society in the longer term", it will lead to trouble (and already does).

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

The contributor to the programme appeared to be saying that, having more women with power and influence (coupled with training) should in theory end up with tech companies taking issues faced by women being taken more seriously and acted upon to decrease the online abuse that women face.

Thats nothing more than guesswork (and as stated, theory) you could just equally state that (in theory) if women stayed at home, and did everything they were told, there would be a decrease in abuse. (You may not agree with it, but you cannot prove or disprove it any more than the previous theory).

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Psychologists urge the Government to make class a protected characteristic under the Equality Act:

https://www.newstatesman.com/society...bery-be-banned

If successful, terms such as Toff, Chav etc would no longer be permitted.

It just goes to show, the lunatics are still trying to run the asylum - I suppose it wins stupid idea of the week.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Psychologists urge the Government to make class a protected characteristic under the Equality Act:

https://www.newstatesman.com/society...bery-be-banned

If successful, terms such as Toff, Chav etc would no longer be permitted.

My God, it gets worse. How many ‘protected characteristics’ do you want? This is the work of the madhouse.

Just give everyone the same right. To be treated fairly and with respect. Nothing more needed.

I am tempted to say that many vulnerable people will get very confused by having too many special characteristics. Some not so vulnerable people will be confused also.

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by Paul

Right, the world is perfect, we all get along, sitting by the lake, in the warm sunshine, singing Kum-ba-ya every evening. I'm sure you live in your own little fantasy world.


You dont seem to know what to believe, since you contradict yourself here.
Prioritising "underrepresented groups" (whatever that means) is the opposite of merit, its called bias.


The rationale is complete nonsense.
Creating resentment and disharmony is not going to lead to "a fairer society in the longer term", it will lead to trouble (and already does).


Thats nothing more than guesswork (and as stated, theory) you could just equally state that (in theory) if women stayed at home, and did everything they were told, there would be a decrease in abuse. (You may not agree with it, but you cannot prove or disprove it any more than the previous theory).




It just goes to show, the lunatics are still trying to run the asylum - I suppose it wins stupid idea of the week.

I think that what she's saying is that if, say, two candidates are shortlisted for a job in a tech firm are of equal merit, consideration of merit can then be taken out of the equation.

If one candidate is male and one is female, especially if they are a person of colour or are a lesbian, then they should be picked if these groups are underepresented in the company, as their input/influence should lead to tech firms taking a different approach/attitude towards treatment of the aforementioned minority groups to improve the treatment and consideration of them by the company.