Britain outside the EU

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

I and others have said several times that this "grubby little project" as you call it has little to do with the promises made by the leave campaign apart from some exception such as the fishermen (who should be OK in about 4 years' time).

It was about rejection of the "ever closer union" mantra put out by Brussels and the handing of sovereignty over to the ECJ.

A competent government (which we don't have) would get us to a good point sooner. As it is, rolling over EU trade deals and making new ones does not make us worse off in international trade terms. Furthermore, the EU remains our largest trading partner. Why do we need to be a member of the EU?

We've generally done a great job on rolling-over trade deals.

But exports to Europe have suffered and costs have risen more than they needed to, making us worse off.

And asylum-seekers continue to cross the channel at their peril in large numbers. The deterrent that they will be sent back to the EU has now been removed.

We need to resolve the NI dispute and make EU trade as frictionless as possible as such costs will only be passed onto us again through higher prices.

[Taf]

A guy who supplies me with Sodium Percarbonate via ebay, recently put his prices up to £99 per kg. It was usually around £6 per kg.

I asked why, and he said he didn't want to wipe out his ebay page as it took him ages to get it right, and he has many returning customers, so he just upped the price to that stupid level to warn off buyers.

"Once the paperwork hassle at Dover settles down, I'll be able to import at the normal price. But it's too much hassle at the moment".

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Taf

A guy who supplies me with Sodium Percarbonate via ebay, recently put his prices up to £99 per kg. It was usually around £6 per kg.

I asked why, and he said he didn't want to wipe out his ebay page as it took him ages to get it right, and he has many returning customers, so he just upped the price to that stupid level to warn off buyers.

"Once the paperwork hassle at Dover settles down, I'll be able to import at the normal price. But it's too much hassle at the moment".

I suspect he may lose a few customers on that particular journey.

[spiderplant]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I suspect he may lose a few customers on that particular journey.

It's a really common practice to temporarily suspend sales. And if anyone does order at the higher price, you can afford to get the product from a non-optimal source.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Ah bless ..

I am "moaning" about the corrupt Vote Leave cabal who groomed and deceived enough people to get this grubby little project over the line. The consequences of which will be increasing revealed as the fog of Covid dissipates.

STILL moaning about the conduct of the referendum! Well, bless you, too.

---------- Post added at 20:03 ---------- Previous post was at 19:33 ----------

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

The EU nations all have different approaches. Denmark and Sweden are leading Europe in dismantling their Covid restrictions.
https://www.euronews.com/2022/02/09/...t-restrictions

---------- Post added at 15:29 ---------- Previous post was at 15:27 ----------


Which of those are wrong?

1. "be a temporary role, lasting no more than six-months given Johnson's lack of electoral popularity" Labour remains ahead in the polls and many commentators including Chris on this forum expect him gone in the Summer which will result in a cabinet reshuffle.

2. "increasing waiting lists" https://www.ft.com/content/a3413758-...3-4384f4ca6d11

3. "inflation" https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/09/brit...gy-crisis.html

4. "Fuel prices." Cap up by 54% this month with Martin Lewis today suggesting a further 20% increase in October
See https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/ne...price-cap-and/


I welcome your evidence-based repudiation of my statement.

1. The EU nations all have different approaches. Denmark and Sweden are leading Europe in dismantling their Covid restrictions.

We are still ahead though and looking forward to all remaining restrictions to be lifted within a couple of weeks or so.

2. Which of those are wrong?

"be a temporary role, lasting no more than six-months given Johnson's lack of electoral popularity" Labour remains ahead in the polls and many commentators including Chris on this forum expect him gone in the Summer which will result in a cabinet reshuffle.

“increasing waiting lists" https://www.ft.com/content/a3413758-...3-4384f4ca6d11

“I inflation" https://www.cnbc.com/2022/02/09/brit...gy-crisis.html

"Fuel prices." Cap up by 54% this month with Martin Lewis today suggesting a further 20% increase in October
See https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/ne...price-cap-and/

I welcome your evidence-based repudiation of my statement.

First point. BJ’s unpopularity is entirely due to Dominic Cummings’ scurrilous allegations which we fondly refer to as ‘Partygate’. I agree that if those allegations are upheld by the police or the expanded Sue Gray report, he is probably toast, but if not, as seems pretty likely since most of these ‘parties’ were not attended by the PM, and were not arranged by him, then his popularity will begin to be restored. This will probably go on to be the biggest non-story ever.

I suspect the ultimate verdict will be that these were work events or breaks between work events. You know, like the one Sir Keir attended when caught with his beer. The police have already decided to take no action on that, so I think this gives a clear indication of where the partygate allegations will end up.

Second point Labour’s lead in the polls is directly related to Partygate. A General Election is still a way off, and it is most unlikely that the electorate will vote Labour back in again. You only need to listen to what the voters are saying about their opinion of Starmer’s Labour Party to know that.

Third point Waiting lists are as high as they are owing to a combination of Labour’s 2008 recession which forced us into austerity and the impact of the pandemic. Sajid Javid now has a plan to tackle this, but it will take time.

Fourth point Inflation is the result of global oil prices and the impact of Covid restrictions coming to an end.

Fifth point You know very well that the rest of the world is also impacted by world oil prices, so I’m not sure what your point is, particularly as Labour would have increased taxes on petrol and diesel.

---------- Post added at 20:09 ---------- Previous post was at 20:03 ----------

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

We've generally done a great job on rolling-over trade deals.

But exports to Europe have suffered and costs have risen more than they needed to, making us worse off.

And asylum-seekers continue to cross the channel at their peril in large numbers. The deterrent that they will be sent back to the EU has now been removed.

We need to resolve the NI dispute and make EU trade as frictionless as possible as such costs will only be passed onto us again through higher prices.

These are short-term problems, not long-term problems. Your mistake is that you think none of this can be resolved. They can be, but not in the space of less than 18 months.

Glad you’ve acknowledged the progress on trade deals. Expect much more over the coming years.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

We are still ahead though and looking forward to all remaining restrictions to be lifted within a couple of weeks or so

More British exceptionalism, Denmark has lifted most of its already.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

First point. BJ’s unpopularity is entirely due to Dominic Cummings’ scurrilous allegations which we fondly refer to as ‘Partygate’. I agree that if those allegations are upheld by the police or the expanded Sue Gray report, he is probably toast, but if not, as seems pretty likely since most of these ‘parties’ were not attended by the PM, and were not arranged by him, then his popularity will begin to be restored. This will probably go on to be the biggest non-story ever.

I suspect the ultimate verdict will be that these were work events or breaks between work events. You know, like the one Sir Keir attended when caught with his beer. The police have already decided to take no action on that, so I think this gives a clear indication of where the partygate allegations will end up.

Second point Labour’s lead in the polls is directly related to Partygate. A General Election is still a way off, and it is most unlikely that the electorate will vote Labour back in again. You only need to listen to what the voters are saying about their opinion of Starmer’s Labour Party to know that.

You wish. Labour's lead in the polls is directly related to Johnson. Ditch him and the Conservative Party will poll better. Partygate has been an eye-opener for those who still thought him good fun. His decline in popularity has been due to many things including the PPE scandals, Matt Hancock, and the financing of No 10's redecoration. The fact that Sue Gray referred evidence to the Metropolitan Police tells most people where things are going to end up.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Third point Waiting lists are as high as they are owing to a combination of Labour’s 2008 recession which forced us into austerity and the impact of the pandemic. Sajid Javid now has a plan to tackle this, but it will take time.

It does not make you popular if these rise especially if you increase taxes and state this is to bring them down.
(You obviously misunderstand how global financial crises occur and whether austerity is a choice or not but that's off topic.)

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Fourth point Inflation is the result of global oil prices and the impact of Covid restrictions coming to an end.

And the currency devaluing by 20% after the Brexit vote pushing up the price of imports. Again, people are less focused on the cause, it doesn't make you popular if it rises.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Fifth point You know very well that the rest of the world is also impacted by world oil prices, so I’m not sure what your point is, particularly as Labour would have increased taxes on petrol and diesel.[/B]

Again, people are less focused on the cause, the point is that it doesn't make you popular if it rises.

[papa smurf]

'No case for rejoining' Keir Starmer puts final nail in Brexit coffin as 'no going back'

Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer made it clear Britain had left the European Union and there were no good reasons to rejoin.


Well that's that then now we can all move on and embrace the future.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...-Trade-Deal-VN

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

'No case for rejoining' Keir Starmer puts final nail in Brexit coffin as 'no going back'

Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer made it clear Britain had left the European Union and there were no good reasons to rejoin.


Well that's that then now we can all move on and embrace the future.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...-Trade-Deal-VN

Well he has to offer that fig leaf to the now “Blue wall”. Considering it is a massive “ U-Turn” on his previous position (which he isn’t being called out on) Boris should be able to make some capital on that tomorrow, if his team is on point.

[daveeb]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Well he has to offer that fig leaf to the now “Blue wall”. Considering it is a massive “ U-Turn” on his previous position (which he isn’t being called out on) Boris should be able to make some capital on that tomorrow, if his team is on point.

Changing your stance on Brexit seems to be a common theme to get what you want. Just ask Liz Truss, Bojo and Theresa May for confirmation.

Originally Posted by Pierre

Well he has to offer that fig leaf to the now “Blue wall”. Considering it is a massive “ U-Turn” on his previous position (which he isn’t being called out on) Boris should be able to make some capital on that tomorrow, if his team is on point.

Parliament is in recess. No PMQs tomorrow.

Typically parties don't get too much flack for changing their position after losing an election on it. They explain they've listened to the result and moved on.

What?

Noone has brought up that the corrupted EU's parliament reports that in 2016, British people did not know what they were voting for in the referendum and that they recommend it be done again, just for final confirmation...

https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...ort-article-50

[Jaymoss]

I had absolutely no idea what thread I was on here for a minute. Thankfully Micks post was at the top of the page. Thought it was the party thread for a while

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by daveeb

Changing your stance on Brexit seems to be a common theme to get what you want. Just ask Liz Truss, Bojo and Theresa May for confirmation.

I don’t buy that. Things change, and you have to adapt.

For example, using the Truss case. She voted remain. The voters chose Brexit. So she accepted that and moved forward to make Brexit work, and over the course of a year, she managed to secure all those rollover deals that ensured trade continuity while our own trade deals were negotiated.

That is politics working. I have nothing but respect for those who were remainers but have accepted the will of the electorate gracefully instead of wallowing in self pity and scoffing every time something goes wrong.

It’s way past time to accept that we are out of the EU now and work together to make the best of it.

Originally Posted by Jaymoss

I had absolutely no idea what thread I was on here for a minute. Thankfully Micks post was at the top of the page. Thought it was the party thread for a while

Thanks for highlighting this.

To everyone. Stop posting partygate posts in this thread. Ones posted already will be removed.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I don’t buy that. Things change, and you have to adapt.

For example, using the Truss case. She voted remain. The voters chose Brexit. So she accepted that and moved forward to make Brexit work, and over the course of a year, she managed to secure all those rollover deals that ensured trade continuity while our own trade deals were negotiated.

That is politics working. I have nothing but respect for those who were remainers but have accepted the will of the electorate gracefully instead of wallowing in self pity and scoffing every time something goes wrong.

It’s way past time to accept that we are out of the EU now and work together to make the best of it.

Nothing wrong with that except as applied to Boris.
He was/is the ultimate weathervane, who switched positions on Brexit in a calculated vector to the premiership.