Home News Forum Articles
  Welcome back Join CF
You are here You are here: Home | Forum | Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most of the discussions, articles and other free features. By joining our Virgin Media community you will have full access to all discussions, be able to view and post threads, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own images/photos, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please join our community today.


Welcome to Cable Forum
Go Back   Cable Forum > General Discussion > Current Affairs

Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-05-2018, 19:40   #76
Hom3r
Mum 15/08/46 - 30/09/20
 
Hom3r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Galactic Sector ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha, www.daves-world.co.uk. A secret Moonbase (shh don't tell anybody)
Age: 55
Services: 1 V6, 2x1TB TiVo, SH3. Samsung Galaxy Note 10+ 5G, Ton's of Smart Home stuff, & Cuddy Toy
Posts: 16,864
Hom3r has a pair of shiny starsHom3r has a pair of shiny starsHom3r has a pair of shiny starsHom3r has a pair of shiny stars
Hom3r has a pair of shiny stars
Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'

As you may know my 17 year old niece came out when she was 16, and currently her girlfriend who is 18 is living with her while she saves and looks for a place to live.

I believe that the couple had a right to refuse to do this cake.

Surely the customer could have taken their custom elsewhere, rather than try and get some money, out of the cake makers.

Plus they surely have a right to serve anyone.

Shops can ask you too leave, if they want.
__________________
STAY AT HOME: I found out that mum will never walk again as the coronavirus attacked her nervous system. She died on September 30th, wearing a mask and she still might be alive today.
Hom3r is offline   Reply With Quote
Advertisement
Old 02-05-2018, 19:48   #77
OLD BOY
Rise above the players
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wokingham
Services: 2 V6 boxes with 360 software, Now, ITVX, Amazon, Netflix, Lionsgate+, Apple+, Disney+, Paramount +,
Posts: 14,569
OLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronze
OLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronze
Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hom3r View Post
As you may know my 17 year old niece came out when she was 16, and currently her girlfriend who is 18 is living with her while she saves and looks for a place to live.

I believe that the couple had a right to refuse to do this cake.

Surely the customer could have taken their custom elsewhere, rather than try and get some money, out of the cake makers.

Plus they surely have a right to serve anyone.

Shops can ask you too leave, if they want.
I agree that I would have gone elsewhere. But others would say, "Why should we?"

The bakery was not complying with the law, pure and simple. And they cannot refuse to serve people because they are gay either.

---------- Post added at 18:48 ---------- Previous post was at 18:44 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by tweetiepooh View Post
No, they didn't deny custom, they denied the customer's request which is different. If they refused to make any item because of the customer that would be wrong.

We shouldn't censor speech rights like this (it's different from hate speech but even there the definition can censor almost anything but there does seem to be a bias).
They denied a perfectly legal request for a cake with a gay slogan on it. You seem to be claiming that the bakery was within its rights to do this, but they were not, and the court has so determined.

I am puzzled by the weird distinctions you have made here, but they are wrong.
OLD BOY is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2018, 20:08   #78
pip08456
Sad Doig Fan!
 
pip08456's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Barry South Wales
Age: 67
Services: With VM for BB 250Mb service.(Deal)
Posts: 11,647
pip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny star
pip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny starpip08456 has a nice shiny star
Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'

The problem here is that the bakery stated why they wouldn't take on the job AFIK. That is where the problem lies.IMHO.

Anyone running a company can decide if they wish to take a job on or not, making the case it's because of a sexual or racial preference is a no no. Best just to say "we cannot deliver it in the time frame you require!"
pip08456 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2018, 20:14   #79
OLD BOY
Rise above the players
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wokingham
Services: 2 V6 boxes with 360 software, Now, ITVX, Amazon, Netflix, Lionsgate+, Apple+, Disney+, Paramount +,
Posts: 14,569
OLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronze
OLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronze
Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'

Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 View Post
The problem here is that the bakery stated why they wouldn't take on the job AFIK. That is where the problem lies.IMHO.

Anyone running a company can decide if they wish to take a job on or not, making the case it's because of a sexual or racial preference is a no no. Best just to say "we cannot deliver it in the time frame you require!"
You mean.........lie?

OMG, whatever next?

OLD BOY is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2018, 20:41   #80
nomadking
cf.mega poster
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Northampton
Services: Virgin Media TV&BB 350Mb, V6 STB
Posts: 7,861
nomadking has a bronze arraynomadking has a bronze arraynomadking has a bronze array
nomadking has a bronze arraynomadking has a bronze arraynomadking has a bronze arraynomadking has a bronze arraynomadking has a bronze arraynomadking has a bronze arraynomadking has a bronze arraynomadking has a bronze array
Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'

The Law states that Halal slaughtered meat is not allowed to be supplied to non-Muslims. When is that ever enforced? The Animal Rights lot should be all over that like a rash, but they're not.
nomadking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2018, 21:20   #81
RizzyKing
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'

The baker's are christians and parts of christianity still oppose gay lifestyles and anything to do with gays so they were expressing their religious belief something that people are supposed to be able to do in this country or is it only islam that gets that freedom these days. There was absolutely no practical reason they couldn't have gone to another bakery without causing all this and as for the "why should they" part well in short no right is greater then another some might be more trendy but they are not more valuable.

It seems these days that people protest for rights they agree with whilst being happy to ignore the rights of others they don't agree with and just demonstrates how hypocritical society is becoming. This was a couple of faith asked to do something their faith opposed so they exercised their religious freedom only it's not a freedom now because christianity isn't one of those trendy things these days.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2018, 22:42   #82
TheDaddy
cf.mega pornstar
 
TheDaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,782
TheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden aura
TheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden aura
Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'

Quote:
Originally Posted by RizzyKing View Post
If it had been me once they said they wouldn't make the cake with that slogan on it I'd have said bye and gone to another baker not as tho they are a rare specialist trade. I think these bakers were targeted by this couple who wanted to make a point and strike another blow for gay rights and we certainly have lots of crusader's these days looking for anything to turn into an issue. Just another example of modern society.
I think you've hit the nail on the head, I'd be prepared to bet that they weren't the first bakers they'd approached either
__________________
Sports Babble
TheDaddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2018, 22:47   #83
Damien
Remoaner
Cable Forum Team
 
Damien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 32,206
Damien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver bling
Damien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver bling
Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'

Quote:
Originally Posted by RizzyKing View Post
The baker's are christians and parts of christianity still oppose gay lifestyles and anything to do with gays so they were expressing their religious belief something that people are supposed to be able to do in this country or is it only islam that gets that freedom these days. There was absolutely no practical reason they couldn't have gone to another bakery without causing all this and as for the "why should they" part well in short no right is greater then another some might be more trendy but they are not more valuable.

It seems these days that people protest for rights they agree with whilst being happy to ignore the rights of others they don't agree with and just demonstrates how hypocritical society is becoming. This was a couple of faith asked to do something their faith opposed so they exercised their religious freedom only it's not a freedom now because christianity isn't one of those trendy things these days.
The thing that marks this out is that they're providing a service. So if this wasn't a crime then would refusing a gay couple a hotel room be ok? Service in a restaurant? Membership of a gym?

The one difference here is that they weren't asking to buy a cake but have the baker write a message on it that was against his own views. Now I think that still qualifies as a service but if this were the United States I wonder if they would be protected under the first amendment as it's compelled speech?

Personally I think they should have made the cake. They weren't asking to marry the baker or get him to perform the ceremony. Don't understand the massive deal. If it's your profession to take someone else's words and write it down on a cake then who cares if you agree with the sentiment or not.
Damien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2018, 23:21   #84
RizzyKing
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'

No they were just expecting those bakers to do what they wanted and i suspect were probably aware of the baker's faith as that's the usual tactic today know someone objects to it and then make a point of asking for something you know will cause trouble. Why these baker's why this case there are dozens of examples daily where muslim staff at supermarkets will refuse to handle pork or alcohol and no one cares. Is it ok for them to do that in a service orientated business where anyone with a mid range double IQ knows if you get a job at Sainsbury's or Tesco you will be dealing with alcohol and pork.

Either apply the law equally to everyone or not at all none of this modern bs picking and choosing as it suits.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2018, 23:36   #85
techguyone
Deus Vult
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: W Mids
Services: VM M350 with Superhub4 (modem mode) > Anytime Chatter > No TV
Posts: 2,081
techguyone has reached the bronze age
techguyone has reached the bronze agetechguyone has reached the bronze agetechguyone has reached the bronze agetechguyone has reached the bronze agetechguyone has reached the bronze agetechguyone has reached the bronze agetechguyone has reached the bronze agetechguyone has reached the bronze agetechguyone has reached the bronze agetechguyone has reached the bronze agetechguyone has reached the bronze agetechguyone has reached the bronze agetechguyone has reached the bronze agetechguyone has reached the bronze agetechguyone has reached the bronze agetechguyone has reached the bronze agetechguyone has reached the bronze agetechguyone has reached the bronze agetechguyone has reached the bronze agetechguyone has reached the bronze age
Send a message via Yahoo to techguyone
Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'

The muslim thing is bogus and they know it, it's not haram to consume pork or alcohol - holding it in it's packaging is not the same thing, and they know it.
techguyone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2018, 23:45   #86
Damien
Remoaner
Cable Forum Team
 
Damien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 32,206
Damien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver bling
Damien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver bling
Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'

Quote:
Originally Posted by RizzyKing View Post
No they were just expecting those bakers to do what they wanted and i suspect were probably aware of the baker's faith as that's the usual tactic today know someone objects to it and then make a point of asking for something you know will cause trouble.
I think both sides were up for this fight because otherwise there were many more paths of lesser effort for this to take than to be at the Supreme Court.

Quote:
Why these baker's why this case there are dozens of examples daily where muslim staff at supermarkets will refuse to handle pork or alcohol and no one cares. Is it ok for them to do that in a service orientated business where anyone with a mid range double IQ knows if you get a job at Sainsbury's or Tesco you will be dealing with alcohol and pork.
Maybe because is this because the law is applied at a business level and not at an indivdual level. In Sainsbury's or Tesco someone else will be available to sell you the product whereas in this case the shop itself refused to service them. If the bakers had said they personally couldn't do it but they'll get another member of staff to do so instead then there wouldn't be a problem.

Unless the law is different in N.Ireland.

Last edited by Damien; 02-05-2018 at 23:50.
Damien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2018, 00:48   #87
RizzyKing
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'

Quote:
Originally Posted by techguyone View Post
The muslim thing is bogus and they know it, it's not haram to consume pork or alcohol - holding it in it's packaging is not the same thing, and they know it.
. Yes i know a friend told me this years ago but I've had staff do it to me as well as seen it done to others. The courts won't agree but i believe and have seen nothing to change my belief that this bakery was targeted to make a point and I don't blame the owner's feeling a little aggrieved by the whole thing.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2018, 01:01   #88
1andrew1
cf.mega poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,188
1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze
1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze
Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
The Law states that Halal slaughtered meat is not allowed to be supplied to non-Muslims. When is that ever enforced? The Animal Rights lot should be all over that like a rash, but they're not.
Where does it say that?
1andrew1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2018, 02:39   #89
TheDaddy
cf.mega pornstar
 
TheDaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,782
TheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden aura
TheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden aura
Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
Where does it say that?
I've heard that before, I agree with him about the animal rights lobby being all over it to, guess they prefer easy targets to. I'll Google the answer for you Andrew seeing as you're busy, you're welcome

Quote:
the meat must be intended for consumption by Jews or Muslims

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/halal-and-kosher-slaughter
__________________
Sports Babble
TheDaddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2018, 08:10   #90
Damien
Remoaner
Cable Forum Team
 
Damien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 32,206
Damien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver bling
Damien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver bling
Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'

It’s not the law that it should not be given to non Muslims (or Jewish people I guess) but that they should be the intended audience even if other people no doubt end up eating it. It’s certainly not illegal if at the point of sale they serve a someone who isn’t Muslim.
Damien is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:06.


Server: osmium.zmnt.uk
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.