Coronavirus

Originally Posted by jfman

All that changed is the WHO decided not to name new variants since it didn’t fit the narrative of “moving on”.

I'm sure you'd like to think that, but you already gave the most obvious reason.

Had they stuck to the initial naming convention we’d have run out of Greek letters by now.

They are still identified, just less pretty or memerable names now, like BA.5, BF.7, BJ.1, BQ.1 or XBB

Originally Posted by jfman

I’m laughing at the concept.

No one mentioned the "concept" except you.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Paul

I'm sure you'd like to think that, but you already gave the most obvious reason.

They are still identified, just less pretty or memerable names now, like BA.5, BF.7, BJ.1, BQ.1 or XBB

So where and when does the first post-Omicron variant arise? What criteria does a variant need to meet to be given a new name?

The answer is none and never. No matter how much (or how little) evolution takes place. They are indeed identified by letters but the public given the comforting narrative of “still omicron”.

No one mentioned the "concept" except you.

It’s been a running theme for a few pages and is the flaw that underpins every one of nffc’s posts.

[Kursk]

The UK is approaching 200,000 reasons why there's a continuing need for this virus to be taken seriously. We don't even know the full long-term effects.

Resigning ourselves to indifference may be the economic solution but we could end up in shit creek without a paddle.

Originally Posted by Kursk

The UK is approaching 200,000 reasons why there's a continuing need for this virus to be taken seriously. We don't even know the full long-term effects.

We're sort of already snookered if there are long-term consequences yet to be revealed about the virus. A sizeable majority of people have had it at some point.

Realistically we've done all we can now. Vaccines and natural infection have turned it into an endemic virus. There might be an argument for some restrictions on China purely because visitors from the country are unique in that the country is effectively in its initial wave so there will be a far greater amount of infections coming in. Whilst we've done what we can we probably don't want a bunch of new infections just from a convenience standpoint if nothing else.

But I am not sure restrictions would help much so it's time to move on and accept this is the world we live in now.

Originally Posted by jfman

So where and when does the first post-Omicron variant arise? What criteria does a variant need to meet to be given a new name?

Dont know, dont care - if your so concerned, feel free to research it yourself.

The answer is none and never.

Those answers make no sense compared to the questions.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by jfman

So where and when does the first post-Omicron variant arise? What criteria does a variant need to meet to be given a new name?

The answer is none and never. No matter how much (or how little) evolution takes place. They are indeed identified by letters but the public given the comforting narrative of “still omicron”.


It’s been a running theme for a few pages and is the flaw that underpins every one of nffc’s posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kursk
<SNIP>

This isn't a new virus any more, it's the same omicron strains which are going around the rest of the world anyway, due to omicron and people being vaccinated as well as a lot of people having the virus previously we have more immunity levels than in 2020.

A little bit of research has revealed:

https://www.china-briefing.com/news/...visory-part-2/

Director of infectious disease department of CDC gives update on COVID-19 cases before the National Day holiday. At a press conference on September 29, Lei Zhenglong, director of the Department of Infectious Disease Prevention and Control of the National Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, stated that the number of daily COVID-19 cases had dropped substantially in September compared to August. Currently, the main outbreaks are concentrated in Tibet, Ningxia, Guizhou, and Heilongjiang, among a few other provinces, with the Omicron variants BA.5 and BA.2.76 being the main strains present in the outbreak.

Elsewhere, these strains are reported as having been first discovered in South Africa.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/c...latest-updates

A number of Omicron variants are currently circulating in England, many of which have acquired mutations which may produce a degree of immune escape. Omicron sublineages BQ.1 and XBB have been given UKHSA variant designations to facilitate continued studies. Neither have currently been designated as variants of concern.

BQ.1 (V-22OCT-01) is a BA.5 sub-lineage which has been designated on the basis of rapid growth. So far, there have been 717 V-22OCT-01 sequences uploaded from the UK to the international GISAID database.

XBB (V-22OCT-02) is a recombinant lineage derived from 2 previous Omicron sublineages. Currently there are 18 UK samples in GISAID, out of a global total of 1,086; 639 samples have been uploaded from Singapore, and it is thought that XBB may be a factor in the recent spike in cases there.

Neutralisation studies are currently being undertaken at the University of Oxford. Overall, data shows significant reductions in neutralisation against several of the newly emergent variants (BA.2.75.2, BA.2.3.20 and BJ.1), compared to BA.2, BA.4 and the dominant BA.5. This suggests that, as immunity begins to wane, these newly emerging BA.2 variants may fuel future waves of SARS-CoV-2 infection.

Dr Meera Chand, Director of Clinical and Emerging Infection at UKHSA, said:

It is not unexpected to see new variants of SARS-CoV-2 emerge. Neither BQ.1 nor XBB have been designated as variants of concern and UKHSA is monitoring the situation closely, as always.

Vaccination remains our best defence against future COVID-19 waves, so it is still as important as ever that people come take up all the doses for which they are eligible as soon as possible.

I'm not sure that public is given official "still Omicron" messages. We have the nffc statement to that effect. The UK Guvmin analysis quoted above confirms that what's happening in China is happening here.

That said, the argument leans in favour of nffc rather than jfman.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Paul

Dont know, dont care - if your so concerned, feel free to research it yourself.

Those answers make no sense compared to the questions.

I’m not really sure why you’re choosing to argue the point tbh if you don’t know or care.

---------- Post added at 20:46 ---------- Previous post was at 20:39 ----------

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

A little bit of research has revealed:

https://www.china-briefing.com/news/...visory-part-2/

Elsewhere, these strains are reported as having been first discovered in South Africa.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/c...latest-updates

I'm not sure that public is given official "still Omicron" messages. We have the nffc statement to that effect. The UK Guvmin analysis quoted above confirms that what's happening in China is happening here.

That said, the argument leans in favour of nffc rather than jfman.

They’re not necessarily the same variants, simply under the same umbrella “omicron” that is now so wide as to be rendered meaningless.

[nffc]

Originally Posted by jfman

They’re not necessarily the same variants, simply under the same umbrella “omicron” that is now so wide as to be rendered meaningless.

No-one can argue with you when you are so keen to misunderstand and add meanings into comments which aren't there.


It renders your responses meaningless.

[Sephiroth]

In defence of jfman, he is merely warning people to question what we are officially told.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by nffc

No-one can argue with you when you are so keen to misunderstand and add meanings into comments which aren't there.

It renders your responses meaningless.

Then take it back to you falling for the narrative hook, line and sinker. And laughing at the comfort taken in immunity that isn’t there. With the laughing emoji.

---------- Post added at 21:03 ---------- Previous post was at 21:01 ----------

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

In defence of jfman, he is merely warning people to question what we are officially told.

I don’t think it’s an unreasonable point to make, given the diverse range of Omicron variants that don’t even give immunity among themselves, that a political choice was made at the WHO to go down this route. Given they have form for pandering to China at the start of the pandemic, it’s not unreasonable to hit the conclusion that calling everything the same variant is helpful for the message there’s nothing to worry about.

https://www.who.int/activities/track...CoV-2-variants

The table shows a much more diverse range of sub-lineages and mutations within Omicron than predecessor variants.

And that’s before we start on the world’s greatest behavioural scientists informing the UK Government.

[nffc]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

In defence of jfman, he is merely warning people to question what we are officially told.

He's jumped onto something which wasnt said though.


It does seem somewhat odd that all of the omicron variants are still omicron. I don't know how they work out which lineages are worthy of a new name, maybe they got sick of doing it. But they do still have names and yes BA.1 is different from BA.2 which was going round at the same time then we had BA.4 and BA.5 and now we have a few more and it's each of those which has a slight immune escape from others and vaccine immunity etc which is causing the spikes but that's probably normal. But they are all still omicron. I guess there's less scare factor from popping new names all over the place, that or they aren't that mutated.


The point I was making, which was clear enough for you and others to get, except one person - is that the variants in china are the same variants going round the rest of the world. So what difference does it make? We have it here anyway, so some people with covid coming over from china isn't going to stop it coming in here so popping them into quarantine isn't going to do anything useful because it's already here. If they had different variants which somehow had differing outcomes in terms of severity or immune escape then the answer would be possibly different but in general these restrictions haven't stopped it yet so why would they now? Look at how the world responded to omicron initially yet it still ended up everywhere didn't it?


As for the immunity question, which again one person seems to fail to understand - we do in fact have significant population immunity in the sense that pretty much everyone here has either received doses of a covid vaccine or has had covid or probably both. But this is always going to be partial in a virus which is evolving with immune escape. So yes people are going to get it multiple times because most people (especially those under 50) haven't even been vaccinated with an omicron spike protein (which will be BA.1 not even BA.5 or one of the newer variants) and even those who have previous immunity from an omicron infection aren't necessarily protected from newer variants. This is how the immune system and antibodies work. If the virus can get in faster than the immune system can respond you still get ill. But the response from vaccines or previous infection means the immune system can usually catch up quicker meaning the illness is likely to be less serious or not happen at all. That's how it always works, people who understand immunity as a concept don't need it explaining to them after all.


So no, we shouldn't believe the media line on anything because they aren't trustworthy and the gov have added a fair amount of scare factor to the way people act too, but finding the facts and making your own conclusions...

[jfman]

Originally Posted by nffc

He's jumped onto something which wasnt said though.

It does seem somewhat odd that all of the omicron variants are still omicron. I don't know how they work out which lineages are worthy of a new name, maybe they got sick of doing it. But they do still have names and yes BA.1 is different from BA.2 which was going round at the same time then we had BA.4 and BA.5 and now we have a few more and it's each of those which has a slight immune escape from others and vaccine immunity etc which is causing the spikes but that's probably normal. But they are all still omicron. I guess there's less scare factor from popping new names all over the place, that or they aren't that mutated.

Except the evidence doesn’t back that up.

As I said, it’s a comforting narrative, nothing more and nothing less.

As for the immunity question, which again one person seems to fail to understand - we do in fact have significant population immunity in the sense that pretty much everyone here has either received doses of a covid vaccine or has had covid or probably both.

So much immunity we’ve had 4 waves this year and rising again in the ONS prevalence study. In 2019 and before if anyone sold you getting infected possibly a couple of times a year as “immunity” you’d laugh them out of town.

but finding the facts and making your own conclusions...

[nffc]

Yet you ignore the part where I said that the immunity is partial and selectively quote to spout drivel.


Quite frankly your ad hominem drivel and attempts at arguing are comedy gold.

[jfman]

<removed>
Enough of your argumentative drivel.

You seem to have nothing better to do that make up arguments about things no one said.
As always, you also try and twist posts to suit your strange view of the world. Go do it somewhere else.

[Ms NTL]

Comment in FT:

Good thing alarms are going off everywhere, those vaccines are not going to sell themselves!

I am fully vaccinated but kudos to a good joke!