Liz Truss Resigns [Who'll be the next Prime Minister?]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Most people with half a brain knew this. My energy bills before all this kicked off were over £2,500 a year already.

---------- Post added at 11:54 ---------- Previous post was at 11:51 ----------

Apart from cutting the 45% rate, I'm struggling to see what else about the mini-budget was so abhorrent? that everybody is losing their minds over.

I agree, but perhaps some people would have been confused with the Prime Minister stating that she was

making sure that people across this country are not facing energy bills of more than £2,500

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Damien

It was the whole package of tax cuts without any spending cuts or a costing. Basically just saying let's ramp up the deficit and the debt and they're not convinced it'll grow the economy making the U.K a riskier place to keep your cash.

And yet no one batted an eyelid as they bankrolled people to stay at home for two years and printed a load of cash to pay for it.


Instead of a new era of austerity that would impact the most poorest (Which I'm sure certain individuals on here would have criticised fiercely and demanded the money tree be shaken for the most vulnerable). They have shaken the tree given everybody more cash back and softened the energy cost hit.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Pierre

And yet no one batted an eyelid as they bankrolled people to stay at home for two years and printed a load of cash to pay for it.

Instead of a new era of austerity that would impact the most poorest (Which I'm sure certain individuals on here would have criticised fiercely and demanded the money tree be shaken for the most vulnerable). They have shaken the tree given everybody more cash back and softened the energy cost hit.

Originally Posted by Pierre

Instead of a new era of austerity that would impact the most poorest (Which I'm sure certain individuals on here would have criticised fiercely and demanded the money tree be shaken for the most vulnerable). They have shaken the tree given everybody more cash back and softened the energy cost hit.

The energy package isn't what caused the panic. It was the tax cuts. The Government is telling lenders that they're going to continue to borrow money, even more money in fact, but they're also going to cut their income steam without any mention of cutting their spending. They're also saying they're not going to bother showing them any forecasts, budgets or plans on how that works in practice.

The result for the poorest isn't great because they're not actually getting much money back and the subsequent inflation will push living costs higher anyway. The Government didn't actually do anything that'll tackle inflation other than the energy cost freeze in that mini-budget which is why people expect the BoE to increase interest rates.

No one is saying you need austerity. They're saying you need a competent plan. The Government could have announced a big spending stimulus package and it might have worked had it been a cost to have 'x' impact over 'x' time giving confidence to the people buying Government debt that they were in control.

If anything Truss is now going to feel forced into spending cuts to explain away her tax cuts.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Most people with half a brain knew this. My energy bills before all this kicked off were over £2,500 a year already.

---------- Post added at 11:54 ---------- Previous post was at 11:51 ----------

Apart from cutting the 45% rate, I'm struggling to see what else about the mini-budget was so abhorrent? that everybody is losing their minds over.

A fair assessment therefore would be that Truss has at most half a brain ?

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Damien

The energy package isn't what caused the panic. It was the tax cuts. The Government is telling lenders that they're going to continue to borrow money

Fair play to Pierre to step up as the first to attempt to defend the Government’s mismanagement of the economy, if I’d to place a bet it’d have been on someone else. 0/10 for his sleight of hand trying to claim it was energy and not the “mini-budget”.

The Covid comparison is entertaining too - what was the genuine alternative? Head in the sand? Almost all major economies had to do similar and those that didn’t haven’t had economic advantage, hence the financial markets had nowhere else to bet on for better returns.

It’s also worth noting that the major central banks were supporting the move, lowering the cost of borrowing in the process. Monetary and fiscal policy were aligned. Unlike the current car crash uncosted borrowing as the cost is forecast to be the highest in decades.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Most people with half a brain knew this. My energy bills before all this kicked off were over £2,500 a year already.

---------- Post added at 11:54 ---------- Previous post was at 11:51 ----------

Apart from cutting the 45% rate, I'm struggling to see what else about the mini-budget was so abhorrent? that everybody is losing their minds over.

At last, a sane voice. You have to admire the left for organising such a United front against these measures. These measures are exactly what is needed.

All this crap about everyone struggling to pay their bills, flocking to Aldi, etc. Well, I’m a pensioner myself, I’ve not changed my habits and my supermarket bills end up much the same as normal months. Although my fuel bill went up in April, I’ve now had a monthly £66 government rebate on my bill, not to mention the subsidy already paid out by the government.

Granted, the very poorest can’t pay more as they have nothing to pay with, but they have been helped at every turn by this Conservative government, which the left wantonly ignore to make it look as though they have been abandoned.

The fiscal measures are needed to turn the economy around. The only legitimate criticism that exists is that the detailed plan to pay off the debt has not been made available and the OBR has not been allowed to review it. Well, given that the people of this country needed their subsidy now, there was no time to lose in getting it out there. The government has not finalised the detailed plan to pay off the debt, although they know how to achieve it, and that plan will be forthcoming when it is complete in November. The OBR can then study it to its heart’s content.

The markets have reacted badly owing to the lack of detail, but they will get over it and things will return to normal.

Liz Truss has less than two years to prove what she’s made of and that her radical plans are robust. She is a woman on a mission, and she ain’t gonna hang around.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Damien

The energy package isn't what caused the panic. It was the tax cuts.

Got it.

Tax cuts cost = £37bn end of the world as we know it

Furlough = £70bn no sweat.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Damien

It was the whole package of tax cuts without any spending cuts or a costing. Basically just saying let's ramp up the deficit and the debt and they're not convinced it'll grow the economy making the U.K a riskier place to keep your cash.

Except that there will be spending cuts, that has already been made clear. The Civil Service is to be cut down, saving salaries and building costs. Those quangos still need extinguishing where they are not providing essential services as well.

It has been made clear also the the planning rules are to be streamlined to assist companies to build things faster. The Brexit benefits have not yet been tapped into and we will have a bonfire of the EU regulations that have been holding us back as well.

The increased growth from a whole raft of measures including those already outlined in brief will help us pay off the debt.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by jfman

It’s also worth noting that the major central banks were supporting the move, lowering the cost of borrowing in the process. .

Printing money like it was it going out of fashion, devaluing the currency, fuelling the current inflationary crisis that is driving this shitshow.

Yay!

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Got it.

Tax cuts cost = £37bn end of the world as we know it

Furlough = £70bn no sweat.

Nail on head, Pierre, but I think we’re wasting our time. They can’t see it, and they don’t want to see it.

They will not have the last laugh.

Originally Posted by Pierre

Got it.

Tax cuts cost = £37bn end of the world as we know it

Furlough = £70bn no sweat.

Tax cuts are a permanent cut to your income. Furlough was added to the debt. If the markets think you can meet your debt obligations they don't see it as a risk. If they think it is a risk then they want higher interest in return for lending to you.

The bank had no problem giving me a mortgage but if I decided to cut my income and replace the lost money by using a credit card then I would be seen as a risker proposition.

The Government gave the market's confidence they knew what they were doing with the furlough costs and now the Government isn't giving such confidence.

It's not as if I am making this up. You can see it in the markets.

Why did you bother starting this line of conservation if you're just going to be dishonest and sarcastic about it?

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

At last, a sane voice. You have to admire the left for organising such a United front against these measures. These measures are exactly what is needed.

All this crap about everyone struggling to pay their bills, flocking to Aldi, etc. Well, I’m a pensioner myself, I’ve not changed my habits and my supermarket bills end up much the same as normal months. Although my fuel bill went up in April, I’ve now had a monthly £66 government rebate on my bill, not to mention the subsidy already paid out by the government.

Granted, the very poorest can’t pay more as they have nothing to pay with, but they have been helped at every turn by this Conservative government, which the left wantonly ignore to make it look as though they have been abandoned.

The fiscal measures are needed to turn the economy around. The only legitimate criticism that exists is that the detailed plan to pay off the debt has not been made available and the OBR has not been allowed to review it. Well, given that the people of this country needed their subsidy now, there was no time to lose in getting it out there. The government has not finalised the detailed plan to pay off the debt, although they know how to achieve it, and that plan will be forthcoming when it is complete in November. The OBR can then study it to its heart’s content.

The markets have reacted badly owing to the lack of detail, but they will get over it and things will return to normal.

Liz Truss has less than two years to prove what she’s made of and that her radical plans are robust. She is a woman on a mission, and she ain’t gonna hang around.

So you’ve already had the rebate and energy subsidy don’t come into effect until next month?

https://helpforhouseholds.campaign.g...E&gclsrc=aw.ds

From 1st October, a new ‘Energy Price Guarantee’ will mean a typical UK household will pay no more than £2,500 a year on their energy bill for the next two years. This is automatic and applies to all households.

£400 off energy bills for households in Great Britain from this October. This automatic, non-repayable discount will be applied in six instalments between October 2022 and March 2023 to help households through winter.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Printing money like it was it going out of fashion, devaluing the currency, fuelling the current inflationary crisis that is driving this shitshow.

Yay!

Devaluing the currency, relative to who?

---------- Post added at 14:40 ---------- Previous post was at 14:38 ----------

Originally Posted by Pierre

Got it.

Tax cuts cost = £37bn end of the world as we know it

Furlough = £70bn no sweat.

The point is that £37bn doesn’t trickle down, no matter how many right wing think tanks have claimed it could.

£70bn kept people in jobs and businesses afloat. It paid their bills.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Except that there will be spending cuts, that has already been made clear. The Civil Service is to be cut down, saving salaries and building costs. Those quangos still need extinguishing where they are not providing essential services as well..

That isn't going to be nearly enough, you need to make proper spending cuts of billions. If that was announced alongside a forecast then maybe the markets wouldn't have reacted the way they did.