Amazon and Visa credit cards

So the fact that both companies couldn’t raise their fees before, but now can (and have) raised their fees, is irrelevant?

If they couldn’t have raised their fees, this dispute (probably) wouldn’t be happening…

From sky news

https://news.sky.com/story/amazon-to...cards-12470641

It is understood Amazon is particularly angry at a rise in so-called interchange fees - additional cross-border costs - which it believes have risen five-fold since Brexit.

Such fees, payable by Amazon itself or merchants on its platform, would erode margins and raise prices if passed on.

Originally Posted by Hugh

So the fact that both companies couldn’t raise their fees before, but now can (and have) raised their fees, is irrelevant?

If they couldn’t have raised their fees, this dispute (probably) wouldn’t be happening…

From sky news

https://news.sky.com/story/amazon-to...cards-12470641

Yet they state that their dispute is over domestic fees, not the cross-border interchange fees that were regulated by the EU.

I’m guessing you might have missed the subtly different attribution of sources in the BBC and Sky articles: the BBC attributes its “this is not about Brexit” directly to Amazon and Visa. The Sky article uses the somewhat weasely “it is understood” which is not attributed to anyone on the record at all.

Given that the Sky article was posted at 4pm and the BBC article followed two hours later, it’s highly likely - actually an absolute certainty, given the unequivocal nature of the statement - that the BBC reporter has directly asked both Amazon and Visa to clarify that point. That unequivocal denial that Brexit is responsible, following on from unattributed speculation that it might be, really ought to settle the matter.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Chris

And yet both Amazon and Visa have said Brexit isn’t the issue, and nothing you have posted here shows that it is.

Perhaps the following two paragraphs of the BBC article will clarify:



So, again, I’m not blaming Brexit because both parties in the dispute say they aren’t doing so; because the dispute is over domestic transaction charges within the UK and nothing to do with cross-border interchange fees; and because Mastercard is not involved in the dispute. Both have raised interchange rates yet only Visa is in view here (again, because the stated dispute is over domestic charges).

Though I suspect those with an ideological need to blame Brexit for everything will likely continue to do so regardless of the evidence.

Oh dear, you really think the BBC will give an impartial perspective? Here are a few more for you:

https://www.reuters.com/business/ret...ws-2021-11-17/

Since Brexit, an EU-enforced cap on fees charged by card issuers is no longer in place in the UK.

https://www.itv.com/news/2021-11-17/...s-from-january

Money Saving Expert Martin Lewis said Brexit was behind the decision, with Visa hiking up its fees as the EU cap no longer applies.
He added that "it's a possible negotiating tactic for Amazon to gets its fees reduced".

https://fortune.com/2021/11/17/amazo...s-fee-dispute/

Visa, which raised one type of credit card transaction fee fivefold earlier this year—thanks to Brexit removing restrictions on it doing so—said it was "very disappointed" at what it characterized as a threat from Amazon to "restrict consumer choice," adding that it continued to "work toward a resolution" with Amazon.

You are desperate to believe that reality is not what is seems. Sorry to break the bad news.

Originally Posted by Sirius

Agreed. I am blaming Visa not Amazon.

Exactly, and neither is it "Brexit".
Just becasue that means they can, doesnt mean they must, its still a Visa decision.

Originally Posted by Jaymoss

I got the Amazon Mastercard for the points so I am sorted

As do I - I've had one for quite a while now.

Originally Posted by SnoopZ

Do you only get points for using it on Amazon?

Originally Posted by Jaymoss

No you get 3 points for every £2 on amazon and 1.5 points elsewhere

Not exactly.

You get 3 points per £2 spent on Amazon if you have Prime.
You get 1.5 points per £2 spent on Amazon if you dont have Prime.
You get 0.5 points per £2 when you use it elsewhere.

You get a £10 voucher credited to your amazon account for every 1000 points.

Originally Posted by ianch99

Oh dear, you really think the BBC will give an impartial perspective? Here are a few more for you:

https://www.reuters.com/business/ret...ws-2021-11-17/

https://www.itv.com/news/2021-11-17/...s-from-january

https://fortune.com/2021/11/17/amazo...s-fee-dispute/

You are desperate to believe that reality is not what is seems. Sorry to break the bad news.

Opening your comments by dismissing a BBC report as biased as if such a thing is a given hardly makes you sound credible. Nor is your continuing to conflate two completely different sorts of charge, despite them being set out in black and white. As I said …. those who need to believe Brexit’s to blame will continue to do so despite the evidence. Though I have to admit even I’m surprised by the level of wilful blindness on show here.

[SnoopZ]

Originally Posted by Paul

Exactly, and neither is it "Brexit".
Just becasue that means they can, doesnt mean they must, its still a Visa decision.


As do I - I've had one for quite a while now.



Not exactly.

You get 3 points per £2 spent on Amazon if you have Prime.
You get 1.5 points per £2 spent on Amazon if you dont have Prime.
You get 0.5 points per £2 when you use it elsewhere.

You get a £10 voucher credited to your amazon account for every 1000 points.

I wonder if this pays more than a Tesco CC.

Looking at their site ;

You get one extra point per £4 for spending in Tesco & 1 point per £8 elsewhere.
Thats 0.5 points per £2 instore, and 0.25 per £2 elsewhere.

In the case of both Amazon & Tesco, 1 point is worth 1p
So basically, the Amazon rewards for using their card appear to be worth double (or more) those of Tesco.

[SnoopZ]

I'm probably better off keeping my Tesco CC which pays for my RAC cover in their deals but I will look into it more.

[Jaymoss]

The amazon card is worth having just to get the Gift Card bonus for signing up. Catch it right and it is £40 then you can catch vouchers for adding it as default payment (you can change back after if you want) then you wait till there is a voucher to use Mastercard the first time if you have just used visa or visa debit before. Had all that free money hahahaha

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Chris

Opening your comments by dismissing a BBC report as biased as if such a thing is a given hardly makes you sound credible. Nor is your continuing to conflate two completely different sorts of charge, despite them being set out in black and white. As I said …. those who need to believe Brexit’s to blame will continue to do so despite the evidence. Though I have to admit even I’m surprised by the level of wilful blindness on show here.

If you think that the BBC is reporting Brexit accurately then you need to look again.

Martin Lewis says:

Amazon to stop allowing people to use Visa credit cards from Jan (Visa debit, mastecard & amex still fine)

It's because Visa is increasing transaction rates now the EU cap no longer applies (post Brexit).

It's a possible negotiating tactic for Amazon to gets its fees reduced.

Here's the tricky decision: do we believe Martin Lewis or Chris from CF?

As this trainwreck gets worse, and it will, your highly entertaining attempts to deny reality will get more tortuous.

Originally Posted by ianch99

If you think that the BBC is reporting Brexit accurately then you need to look again.

Martin Lewis says:



Here's the tricky decision: do we believe Martin Lewis or Chris from CF?

As this trainwreck gets worse, and it will, your highly entertaining attempts to deny reality will get more tortuous.

Wrong. Do we believe Martin Lewis speculating, or a BBC reporter who has asked both parties directly and received a consistent answer from both?

It’s simple really.

[Jaymoss]

Martin Lewis definitely

The BBC are totally untrustworthy biased and as bad as the Daily Mail.

Both Amazon and Visa will spin also and tbh it would not really be a surprise if Amazon was doing it to try and get a better deal

[nffc]

Originally Posted by Paul

Exactly, and neither is it "Brexit".
Just becasue that means they can, doesnt mean they must, its still a Visa decision.


As do I - I've had one for quite a while now.



Not exactly.

You get 3 points per £2 spent on Amazon if you have Prime.
You get 1.5 points per £2 spent on Amazon if you dont have Prime.
You get 0.5 points per £2 when you use it elsewhere.

You get a £10 voucher credited to your amazon account for every 1000 points.

It adds up quite a lot, I get vouchers credited most months with buying more online, all for just buying what you'd normally do.

---------- Post added at 12:05 ---------- Previous post was at 11:59 ----------

Originally Posted by Chris

Wrong. Do we believe Martin Lewis speculating, or a BBC reporter who has asked both parties directly and received a consistent answer from both?

It’s simple really.

Well, who knows really?


To be honest I wouldn't trust any of them. If Visa is taking advantage of a cap on fees which doesn't apply now the UK is no longer an EU member, and is increasing the fees past this amount, then that is an effect of Brexit whether direct or not as without Brexit they wouldn't have been able to increase the fees to that amount.


Whether Amazon then decided to call out Visa for their fees (I think MC have done the same thing though...) and block the cards isn't anything to do with Brexit, even though Brexit might have caused the increase in fees to begin with.



The BBC reporter may have been in full knowledge of the underlying picture but might have been under orders not to blame too much on Brexit or Covid due to the recent things which have reported as such and causes mass panic, for example, and Martin Lewis might just be basically making an educated guess. We don't know who actually knows what or who has been told what they should or shouldn't be saying.



I do - thinking about this a bit more - wonder if this is just a subtle method to push their own card (which I've had for years and is definitely worth having) by basically saying, we're stopping VC, but you can sign up for our MC here...

[Julian]

Since the EU cap on domestic card transactions in the UK of 0.2%/0.3% has remained in place post Brexit how can the dispute be a Brexit issue?

Transactions which take place solely within the UK, where the point of sale (‘merchant’), acquirer and card issuer are all within the UK, are covered by the onshored IFR (‘UK IFR’) and subject to the interchange fee caps as before.

LINK

It's also worth noting that both Visa and Mastercard have increased their Interchange fees to the same levels on UK customers buying from the EEA.

However only Visa have introduced the same fees for EU cards buying from UK outlets.

LINK

It appears therefore that Amazon are baulking at Visa increasing their domestic fees from a previous discounted level to higher one that still must be less than the cap.

This is a business decision by Visa which they will have to seriously reconsider I suspect.

There is no love lost between Amazon and Visa with Amazon imposing a customer surcharge on Visa transactions in both Australia and Singapore.

Amazon are also reconsidering their partnership with Visa on their in-house credit card in America.

[spiderplant]

Originally Posted by Julian

Since the EU cap on domestic card transactions in the UK of 0.2%/0.3% has remained in place post Brexit how can the dispute be a Brexit issue?

Because when you buy from Amazon UK you are actually paying a company in Luxembourg.