Updated: Boris resigns as party leader

Originally Posted by Mick

Well, we have a leader of the opposition struggling with honesty too, so Labour’s ploy to stoke this up as a scandal, is a bit pathetic.

Who cares what Labour are doing, they're always going to oppose the Government, just as the Tories will always say Labour can't govern.

We can form our own opinion on it (personally I don't really care, Gray is a civil servant so is unlikely to thrown any one person under the bus).

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Damien

Who cares what Labour are doing, they're always going to oppose the Government, just as the Tories will always say Labour can't govern.

We can form our own opinion on it (personally I don't really care, Gray is a civil servant so is unlikely to thrown any one person under the bus).

In fairness to Johnson supporters - he leaves them with an extremely limited set of issues to work with. Starmer had a beer and a curry is about all they have going for them.

[Sephiroth]

I'm sufficiently partisan (as a signed up Conservative member) so as to be praying (atheistically, of course) that Starmer gets done - even more than I yearn for Boris to be gone and a decent replacement put in place.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

If he lies to his wives, lies (and denies) about his children, lies in his leadership campaign, lies in the party manifesto, lies to Parliament, lies to our international partners - it's quite astonishing that the people who think we are better off without Johnson are the idiots.

A Tory leader of even moderate competence, with limited credibility, right now would surely be better to lead us through the cost of living crisis?

They're not a football team - the personal affinity some seem to have for Johnson (especially given his personal flaws outlined in sentence one) is quite astonishing. What makes people believe he will lie to everyone else but not them?

This is the man that had two versions of the story ready to go in favour of remaining and leaving the EU until he decided which was the most politically expedient for his career aspirations.

You do like twisting things, don’t you, jfman? It has been explained many times before that he wrote one article for and one against to compare the arguments of both sides, and it helped him to make the correct decision.

Sorry to destroy the illusion you were trying to trick people into believing, but it is always wise to seek the truth.

---------- Post added at 14:42 ---------- Previous post was at 14:39 ----------

Originally Posted by Mick

Well, we have a leader of the opposition struggling with honesty too, so Labour’s ploy to stoke this up as a scandal, is a bit pathetic.

Yes, and as I pointed out earlier, Starmer’s offence is graver than Boris’s, because this beer event was after work, not during work as BJ’s was.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

You do like twisting things, don’t you, jfman? It has been explained many times before that he wrote one article for and one against to compare the arguments of both sides, and it helped him to make the correct decision.

Sorry to destroy the illusion you were trying to trick people into believing, but it is always wise to seek the truth.

Yes, I often write newspaper articles when weighing up both sides of an argument the night before publication. It's not like the debate hadn't been raging for years within his own party. He's got you with his lies hook, line and sinker. You're absolutely delusional.

Yes, and as I pointed out earlier, Starmer’s offence is graver than Boris’s, because this beer event was after work, not during work as BJ’s was.

Originally Posted by Damien

Who cares what Labour are doing, they're always going to oppose the Government, just as the Tories will always say Labour can't govern.

We can form our own opinion on it (personally I don't really care, Gray is a civil servant so is unlikely to thrown any one person under the bus).

I care what Labour are doing. They are suppose to hold this government to account and they can’t effectively do that, especially with a leader currently under criminal investigation & when they themselves, have acted just as shady.

---------- Post added at 16:18 ---------- Previous post was at 16:10 ----------

Originally Posted by jfman

In fairness to Johnson supporters - he leaves them with an extremely limited set of issues to work with. Starmer had a beer and a curry is about all they have going for them.

Did the fact Starmer is under criminal investigation, pass your usual narrow mindedness?

[jfman]

Not particularly, Mick. As I've said it's the only straw you have to clutch at so it's no surprise to see you clinging for dear life. I'd quite happily see Starmer go regardless of whether he gets fined or not - I don't think he's very good. But that's irrelevant to the subject at hand.

On what issues do you think the Labour Party should hold the Government to account in particular? I'm not sure I recall you criticising them for anything.

Originally Posted by jfman

Not particularly, Mick. As I've said it's the only straw you have to clutch at so it's no surprise to see you clinging for dear life.

On what issues do you think the Labour Party should hold the Government to account in particular? I'm not sure I recall you criticising them for anything.

Get a grip, this isn’t a life and death situation, it’s a debate on a forum, there is no clutching, no straws. I’m definitely not having you come along and just dismiss Starmer being under criminal investigation, as just a “straw”, when the leader of the opposition could end up having to resign if he gets a fine, if we’re talking tubular structures, it’s equivalent to the channel tunnel.

Originally Posted by Mick

Get a grip, this isn’t a life and death situation, it’s a debate on a forum, there is no clutching, no straws. I’m definitely not having you come along and just dismiss Starmer being under criminal investigation, as just a “straw”, when the leader of the opposition could end up having to resign if he gets a fine, if we’re talking tubular structures, it’s equivalent to the channel tunnel.

I agree but the point is Starmer being under investigation isn't that relevant to my criticism of Johnson. I said Starmer should resign if he is fined and I think Johnson should have resigned for the same reasons (and lying to Parliament).

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Damien

I agree but the point is Starmer being under investigation isn't that relevant to my criticism of Johnson. I said Starmer should resign if he is fined and I think Johnson should have resigned for the same reasons (and lying to Parliament).

Indeed, it's whataboutery. It's also - at this stage - a hypothetical. Unlike with Johnson who has been fined.

Originally Posted by Damien

I agree but the point is Starmer being under investigation isn't that relevant to my criticism of Johnson. I said Starmer should resign if he is fined and I think Johnson should have resigned for the same reasons (and lying to Parliament).

I don’t think either of them should resign, a stupid law was created for essentially, what was a bad cold, bad colds can still kill, we don’t make stupid laws that infringe on our freedoms, to contain and stop the spread of said bad colds.

Johnson is a liar, I’ve never disputed this and I have also stated, he’s not my choice for PM. I wouldn’t care if he went tomorrow.

But equally, Starmer is also a liar and terrible one at that. But the lying and the scheming, attempt to cover up the shenanigans at Miners hall, it’s not good enough at all from Labour.

---------- Post added at 16:56 ---------- Previous post was at 16:52 ----------

Originally Posted by jfman

Indeed, it's whataboutery. It's also - at this stage - a hypothetical. Unlike with Johnson who has been fined.

Sod off with the whataboutery bullshit, when it was all hypothetical for Johnson, Starmer insisted Johnson should resign, Starmer will only go now, if he is fined, it’s double standards and ridiculous hypocrisy from the likes of you.

[jfman]

So if Starmer is cleared I presume your condemnation will then only go in one direction towards Johnson? On the basis of the guilt of one and innocence of the other?

Whether Starmer should have pre-judged the inquiry into Johnson or not is a trivial matter by comparison. It was clear political opportunism, and left him open to accusations of hypocrisy, but not only is it neither life nor death it's also not a crime. If we want to hold our politicians to a higher standard than that so be it - but there's plenty on the Government benches that can be accused very easily. Starting off with the expenses claims of every one who claims the poor should get better at cooking.

Originally Posted by jfman

So if Starmer is cleared I presume your condemnation will then only go in one direction towards Johnson? On the basis of the guilt of one and innocence of the other?

Whether Starmer should have pre-judged the inquiry into Johnson or not is a trivial matter by comparison. It was clear political opportunism, and left him open to accusations of hypocrisy, but not only is it neither life nor death it's also not a crime. If we want to hold our politicians to a higher standard than that so be it - but there's plenty on the Government benches that can be accused very easily. Starting off with the expenses claims of every one who claims the poor should get better at cooking.

Like to divert much don’t you?

I know you’re referring to Lee Anderson’s remarks, not sure what this has to do with Partygate?

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Mick

Like to divert much don’t you?

I know you’re referring to Lee Anderson’s remarks, not sure what this has to do with Partygate?

About the same as the accusation against Starmer has to do with Johnson's guilt. Nothing.

We either advocate holding all politicians to a higher standard or we don't, and if we don't it's just continued finger pointing and blindly following one party like a football team. When they get round to sacking the manager we will just back the next guy regardless and criticise the opposition.

Originally Posted by jfman

About the same as the accusation against Starmer has to do with Johnson's guilt. Nothing.
.

Wrong. The accusations against Starmer & Labour has a lot to do with the title of this topic and it’s staying this way.