Russia has invaded Ukraine

NOTE: I have to say I would not always link to or show offensive language… but I can make an exception….

Reuters: NEW: The U.S may ban Russian oil imports without Europe.

The U.S. is willing to ban Russian oil imports into the country without the participation of its European allies, according to the sources cited by Reuters.

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Senior Pentagon official: Nearly 100% of Russia’s combat power already in Ukraine.

According to a U.S. defense official cited by CNN, Russia has already launched more than 625 missiles against Ukraine. He also said that Ukraine has enough surface-to-air weapons for protection. - Kyiv Independent.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Mick

Are you joking?

He already has Crimea
The two other provinces he already had, in regards that Ukraine wasn’t in charge of them and he was funding rebels.
If he agrees to immediately withdraw then no further military action is required, anyway.

The only actual demand that is required onerous is the change in the constitution that effectively bars them from joining the EU and NATO.

I think to end it, that is a price worth paying as there are ways around it going forward.

So Ukraine just let’s Putin think he’s won, Putin can’t be seen to lose and he’s lost this war, sure he’s got a massive nuclear arsenal but that’s no good to him, when it involves Armageddon. So he’s now got to save face and he has to walk away with some kind of win to stay in power.

That is absolutely the case.

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Originally Posted by papa smurf

I wouldn't accept them.

They may not have a choice

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Originally Posted by pip08456

I don't think Ukraine will either. Perhaps a counter would be to allow Russia to lease the Crimea naval base.

Why would Russia lease it when it’s been in their possession for 8 yrs?

If he gets away with this, Moldova will be next, then Ukraine again, then he’ll try one of the ex-Sov Republics that in NATO (Latvia, Lithuania, etc.) - he’ll keep pushing, because that’s what bullies do…

He’s previously stated he intends to get all the ex-Sov Republics (and more) into a “Great Russian Empire" - he won’t stop until he’s stopped.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Damien

Exactly, he is trying to find a way out. He can't be allowed to have this invasion pay off with more land and force a sovereign state to adopt his foreign policy. It's up to Ukraine who they ally with.

You have to give him a way out, or this continues.

[Jaymoss]

Originally Posted by Hugh

If he gets away with this, Moldova will be next, then Ukraine again, then he’ll try one of the ex-Sov Republics that in NATO (Latvia, Lithuania, etc.) - he’ll keep pushing, because that’s what bullies do…

He’s previously stated he intends to get all the ex-Sov Republics (and more) into a “Great Russian Empire" - he won’t stop until he’s stopped.

But it could slow hm down and get him out and about long enough for a joint intelligence operation to put a bullet in his head

[GrimUpNorth]

I think it'll be no deal. They were saying on CNN today (don't have a link and may not be accurate) they were getting word that in places Ukraine was pushing back especially where Russia has pushed forward leaving the remaining troops a bit thin on the ground.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Hugh

If he gets away with this, Moldova will be next, then Ukraine again, then he’ll try one of the ex-Sov Republics that in NATO (Latvia, Lithuania, etc.) - he’ll keep pushing, because that’s what bullies do…

He’s previously stated he intends to get all the ex-Sov Republics (and more) into a “Great Russian Empire" - he won’t stop until he’s stopped.

He won’t surrender, so this continues unless he’s replaced or a negotiated settlement is conducted.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Damien

Exactly, he is trying to find a way out. He can't be allowed to have this invasion pay off with more land and force a sovereign state to adopt his foreign policy. It's up to Ukraine who they ally with.

I doubt they would trust Putin's Russia. Ukraine gave up nuclear weapons for the promise that their borders would be intact and this promise was not honoured.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

this promise was not honoured.

By the US, U.K. and Russia

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Pierre

By the US, U.K. and Russia

Just the last country on the list. The UK and US have not violated Ukraine's territory.

And Gorbachev is on record as being happy for Poland etc to join NATO in case you're eluding to that particular myth espoused by Putin and his friends.

Originally Posted by Jaymoss

But it could slow hm down and get him out and about long enough for a joint intelligence operation to put a bullet in his head

Real life isn’t a Tom Clancy book…

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Just the last country on the list. The UK and US have not violated Ukraine's territory.

And Gorbachev is on record as being happy for Poland etc to join NATO in case you're eluding to that particular myth espoused by Putin and his friends.

As was posted in this thread on the 24th February

Originally Posted by Hugh

Refutation of the common misconception (mentioned by Vlad in his "justification of invasion" speech) that NATO would not expand Eastward.

This statement is from someone who was there, and instrumental in the treaty negotiations - Mikhail Sergeyevich Gorbachev...

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-fr...achev-says-no/

This article is from over 7 years ago, so history is not being "rewritten" to justify current events (unlike with Putin's speeches).

Originally Posted by Pierre

You have to give him a way out, or this continues.

This isn't giving him a way out, it's giving him a huge victory. One of the conditions will almost certainly be that sanctions are removed as well. So he would have won a compliant government in Ukraine, Crimea officially recognised as Russian and two new puppet 'independent' states. Huge success for Putin and a reward for his aggression.

It has to stop. We can't keep making concessions to his violence and bullying. It has ramifications beyond Ukraine to all of Europe. He'll just do it again and once again it'll be 'Well, you need to give him something'. We need him to lose and be seen to lose. Even if he gets the above via violence at least the sanctions will damage Russia's economy to the point it cost too much and not only does it make him think twice about another invasion but Russia won't have the economic ability to wage another war.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Just the last country on the list. The UK and US have not violated Ukraine's territory.

But they promised it’s security……….

Originally Posted by Pierre

But they promised it’s security……….

That was not the statement you answered…

the promise that their borders would be intact and this promise was not honoured.

Originally Posted by Pierre

By the US, U.K. and Russia