Russia has invaded Ukraine

Originally Posted by Carth

well . . I presumed (probably wrongly) that the great minds of the world want us all to be friends with each other, accept the differences between cultures and religions, and all live happily ever after in a unicorn filled utopia . . . forgive me for thinking that a few bad apples is all it takes to burn the orchard

What are you smoking?

I know a few ocean-going hand wringers when it comes to the whole “embracing diversity” thing, but not one of them would ever come close to condoning rape for any reason.

If this was an attempt at satire it was in poor taste and fell very flat indeed. Though I hope that’s what it was because if you were serious, it’s quite insulting.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Chris

What are you smoking?

I know a few ocean-going hand wringers when it comes to the whole “embracing diversity” thing, but not one of them would ever come close to condoning rape for any reason.

If this was an attempt at satire it was in poor taste and fell very flat indeed. Though I hope that’s what it was because if you were serious, it’s quite insulting.

I don't wish to speak for Carth, but if I were to give him a huge B.o.t.D. I think it was a very clumsy attempt at highlighting that East & West values, much as Western & Islamic values are like oil & water.

[Carth]

aah hell with it, I wrote a post explaining but may as well bang my head against the wall . . . carry on while I go do something else

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Carth

well . . I presumed (probably wrongly) that the great minds of the world want us all to be friends with each other, accept the differences between cultures and religions, and all live happily ever after in a unicorn filled utopia . . . forgive me for thinking that a few bad apples is all it takes to burn the orchard

This is where the dream of "one world" falls flat in other words is impossible.

Just look at the cases in this country of sexual abuse and the "gangs" that did it. It wasn't anything against their culture, it was/is acceptable then and now.

There is no such thing as "we are all the same" because we are not, it would be nice if were.

Past history of any Country forms the culture and by extention their view of what civilisation is.

Originally Posted by Pierre

I don't wish to speak for Carth, but if I were to give him a huge B.o.t.D. I think it was a very clumsy attempt at highlighting that East & West values, much as Western & Islamic values are like oil & water.

Most of the Russian population live in Eastern Europe, not the East - they are (mostly) Western, like the rest of Europe…

http://www.geo-ref.net/pdf/russia.pdf

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Most of the Russian population live in Eastern Europe, not the East - they are (mostly) Western, like the rest of Europe…

http://www.geo-ref.net/pdf/russia.pdf

As regards Russian outlook and culture would you care to explain the difference?

Russian culture is pretty Western anyway, isn't it? Similar historical influences, majority Christian. A lot of their music and literature influenced Western Europe and vice versa. Before the first world war and the Russian revolution there were a lot of mixing of European and Russian elites and artists.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Damien

Russian culture is pretty Western anyway, isn't it? Similar historical influences, majority Christian. A lot of their music and literature influenced Western Europe and vice versa. Before the first world war and the Russian revolution there were a lot of mixing of European and Russian elites and artists.

Russia is not a Western culture, I would listen to Brendan O’Neil’s interview with Konstantin Kisin.

Originally Posted by Damien

Russian culture is pretty Western anyway, isn't it? Similar historical influences, majority Christian. A lot of their music and literature influenced Western Europe and vice versa. Before the first world war and the Russian revolution there were a lot of mixing of European and Russian elites and artists.

Definitely not. Orthodox Christianity is not Roman Catholic and never has been (it isn’t Protestant either - it’s been around pretty much since the get-go). There isn’t an Orthodox Pope; the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople is nominally in charge but his influence is more or less analogous to the Archbishop of Canterbury in worldwide Anglicanism. This means the territorial Patriarchs of the Orthodox churches have a great deal of personal influence. Patriarch Kiril of the Russian Orthodox has been pushing a quite violently nationalist message that gives some serious legitimacy to what Putin is doing (so far as Russians are concerned anyway).

Fair enough. I always kinda thought of Russia as a tangent of Western culture.

---------- Post added at 20:18 ---------- Previous post was at 20:10 ----------

Originally Posted by Pierre

Russia is not a Western culture, I would listen to Brendan O’Neil’s interview with Konstantin Kisin.

Will do.

Originally Posted by Chris

Definitely not. Orthodox Christianity is not Roman Catholic and never has been (it isn’t Protestant either - it’s been around pretty much since the get-go). There isn’t an Orthodox Pope; the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople is nominally in charge but his influence is more or less analogous to the Archbishop of Canterbury in worldwide Anglicanism. This means the territorial Patriarchs of the Orthodox churches have a great deal of personal influence. Patriarch Kiril of the Russian Orthodox has been pushing a quite violently nationalist message that gives some serious legitimacy to what Putin is doing (so far as Russians are concerned anyway).

The culture and influence derived from Christianity is different to the branches that then followed isn't it?

Originally Posted by Damien

Fair enough. I always kinda thought of Russia as a tangent of Western culture.

That’s a common error.

As Christianity spread north to the lands now identified with Russia from the eastern Roman Empire, the cultural influences were Byzantine, not Roman (even when the east was fully incorporated in the empire there were differences). In an effort to promote learning, especially of their religion, early missionaries devised a script for them which was based on Greek, as this was their language. Notably, not Latin. Language and even the way languages are written can isolate one culture from another. Had the land been evangelised by Roman clerics rather than Byzantine ones things might have been very different.

---------- Post added at 20:30 ---------- Previous post was at 20:25 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

Fair enough. I always kinda thought of Russia as a tangent of Western culture.

---------- Post added at 20:18 ---------- Previous post was at 20:10 ----------



Will do.



The culture and influence derived from Christianity is different to the branches that then followed isn't it?

To take an example, Protestant and Roman Catholic theologies (which I know more about than Orthodox) lead to quite different views about what an individual’s responsibility is towards their religion and their community. In fact strongly individualistic conceptions of the self within a community are very much a hallmark of Protestant rather than Catholic countries.

[tweetiepooh]

Church history is next year but one cause of divide between the Eastern and Western churches was over a small change to a creed. The western churches wanted to amend a clause about The Holy Spirit - "from The Father" to "from The Father and The Son". The filioque clause.



The issue to the eastern churches was not so much the theology but that the change was to be imposed by the pope without consultation.

Originally Posted by tweetiepooh

Church history is next year but one cause of divide between the Eastern and Western churches was over a small change to a creed. The western churches wanted to amend a clause about The Holy Spirit - "from The Father" to "from The Father and The Son". The filioque clause.

The issue to the eastern churches was not so much the theology but that the change was to be imposed by the pope without consultation.

True, and the difference persists to this day (I happen to think the Roman Catholic view was correct, and the Orthodox only omit it out of pique). The difference is technical and makes no difference to the daily lived experience of any Christian anywhere.

However it is of minimal significance to the wider reasons for differences in Russian culture from the rest of Europe. That has far more to do with Western Europe’s easy ability to transmit ideas right up to the renaissance period in Latin, because this had been enforced as the ecclesial language across western Christianity. It was not the official language in the east, which actually didn’t have one single language at all. In some places Koine Greek (the language the New Testament was actually written in) persisted, but in Eastern Europe, including Russia, Church Slavonic was the ecclesial language.

Nuclear weapons likely to be used? Such piffle.