Will Scotland Leave the UK?

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Damien

In a way, I find it pretty depressing and pathetic how lame our corruption is. Undone for a crappy motorhome that sits unused in a drive, rubbish. If this were America we would be talking a secret family, a mansion paid for by corporate lobbyists maybe even a wiretap on their political opponents.

Maybe you have not been looking at Westminister? The Tory Peer Mone and her PPE VIP lane funded £10 million superyacht, etc.

Originally Posted by ianch99

Maybe you have not been looking at Westminister? The Tory Peer Mone and her PPE VIP lane funded £10 million superyacht, etc.

The Nats certainly haven’t forgotten. Whenever some new revelation has come out over the past couple of weeks the whataboutery on the Twitters has been strong indeed.

Mind you, this week they’ve moved on from insisting Westminster is still worse, to insisting this whole affair is a Westminster conspiracy. I guess it’s not surprising, Nicola and her pals have spent years talking up their moral superiority over other politicians, so the utter headbangers who hang on her every word can no longer conceive of what’s happening to them in any other way.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Chris

The Nats certainly haven’t forgotten. Whenever some new revelation has come out over the past couple of weeks the whataboutery on the Twitters has been strong indeed.

Mind you, this week they’ve moved on from insisting Westminster is still worse, to insisting this whole affair is a Westminster conspiracy. I guess it’s not surprising, Nicola and her pals have spent years talking up their moral superiority over other politicians, so the utter headbangers who hang on her every word can no longer conceive of what’s happening to them in any other way.

Your obsession with trashing the SNP is leaving you blinkered. You revel in the corruption of the SNP yet are muted on a similar level of sleaze in the party you support.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Your obsession with trashing the SNP is leaving you blinkered. You revel in the corruption of the SNP yet are muted on a similar level of sleaze in the party you support.

The one thing has nothing to do with the other.

It may be that more than one party deserves trashing. But it is not invalid for Chris to trash the SNP.

Of course, the SNP is trashing itself or do you not agree?

Originally Posted by ianch99

Your obsession with trashing the SNP is leaving you blinkered. You revel in the corruption of the SNP yet are muted on a similar level of sleaze in the party you support.

In a topic based discussion forum, it’s generally considered acceptable to discuss the topic indicated by the thread title without it being constantly necessary to set out what you think on a range of other issues. I’m pretty sure you already knew that though.

As for ‘revel[ing]’ well absolutely yes I am. I suspect you don’t realise exactly how this is playing out in Scotland right now, all over the press and TV every morning and evening. The SNP has for years sold itself as a fundamentally different beast than anything on show in ‘Westminster’ (code: England) and has been quick to lecture others on their perceived shortcomings whilst, it seems, happily indulging (and disguising) their own.

So forgive me if I enjoy a little deep-fried schadenfreude this week. It tastes fab.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Your obsession with trashing the SNP is leaving you blinkered. You revel in the corruption of the SNP yet are muted on a similar level of sleaze in the party you support.

Ultimately, for unionists corruption has always been (and always will) be at the core of their politics. The fact it’s the SNP makes it novel.

Tory corruption will be the useful shield given that’s at taxpayers expense at far greater quantity. So while Chris enjoys the echo chamber of the state broadcaster and unionist chip papers it’s far from certain the extent it will resonate meaningfully in the medium to long term with the independence supporting electorate who long gave up on the dying media that symbolises the union so well.

That said, to defend Chris, some of this pantomime is objectively funny.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by jfman

Ultimately, for unionists corruption has always been (and always will) be at the core of their politics. The fact it’s the SNP makes it novel.

Tory corruption will be the useful shield given that’s at taxpayers expense at far greater quantity. So while Chris enjoys the echo chamber of the state broadcaster and unionist chip papers it’s far from certain the extent it will resonate meaningfully in the medium to long term with the independence supporting electorate who long gave up on the dying media that symbolises the union so well.

That said, to defend Chris, some of this pantomime is objectively funny.

I don't disagree that it is a clown show but the serious subject of Executive corruption shouldn't just based on your tribal preferences. If you are going to bang on about how bad the SNP corruption is, then be objective and be consistent. That is all I am saying.

Also, the constant use of the playground taunts e.g. Hamza Useless (or whatever) just cheapens the debate. YMMV

---------- Post added at 13:13 ---------- Previous post was at 13:10 ----------

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

The one thing has nothing to do with the other.

It may be that more than one party deserves trashing. But it is not invalid for Chris to trash the SNP.

Of course, the SNP is trashing itself or do you not agree?

I am not saying it is. I am saying be consistent and be proportionate. I mean, funnelling 100's of millions to your mates is not in the same league as secretly buying a caravan with Party funds

[jfman]

Originally Posted by ianch99

I don't disagree that it is a clown show but the serious subject of Executive corruption shouldn't just based on your tribal preferences. If you are going to bang on about how bad the SNP corruption is, then be objective and be consistent. That is all I am saying.

Also, the constant use of the playground taunts e.g. Hamza Useless (or whatever) just cheapens the debate. YMMV

Well this is the thing the Tories don’t have anything left. Getting practice in throwing stones from the sidelines will serve them well for their period out of office after the next General Election.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Chris

In a topic based discussion forum, it’s generally considered acceptable to discuss the topic indicated by the thread title without it being constantly necessary to set out what you think on a range of other issues. I’m pretty sure you already knew that though

Yes I knew that. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by ianch99

I am not saying it is. I am saying be consistent and be proportionate. I mean, funnelling 100's of millions to your mates is not in the same league as secretly buying a caravan with Party funds

But you don’t say anything of substance. You just go-for the person who has made a comment of substance on an irrelevant basis.

Do you agree that the SNP is trashing itself?

Originally Posted by jfman

Ultimately, for unionists corruption has always been (and always will) be at the core of their politics. The fact it’s the SNP makes it novel.

Tory corruption will be the useful shield given that’s at taxpayers expense at far greater quantity. So while Chris enjoys the echo chamber of the state broadcaster and unionist chip papers it’s far from certain the extent it will resonate meaningfully in the medium to long term with the independence supporting electorate who long gave up on the dying media that symbolises the union so well.

That said, to defend Chris, some of this pantomime is objectively funny.

There is of course an independence-supporting echo chamber that assumes #BBCbias is a given amongst those of a similar constitutional mind and that ‘nobody’ watches it any more. They then get surprisingly uptight when it says something they don’t like, given that it’s supposedly talking to an empty room.

There is some early polling that suggests the SNP’s fortunes are on the wane while support for independence remains in the mid-40s (excluding don’t knows). Being the party most associated with The Cause really isn’t going to save them, though it will be useful, for Labour in particular, if the SNP goes on assuming it will, right up to polling day when it will be too late.

In the long run, a broad yes movement permanently decoupled from one political party is more likely to produce a broader, more credible proposition, anyway. Yessers with an ounce of common sense ought to see that, and to be fair when I dip into their Twitter echo chambers, the thinking ones increasingly do.

You’re right, though, it is very, very funny. Have you seen the clip of the man from Govan trying to film the SNP Motorhome through the bars of the police pound, and getting righteously cross when challenged by two shady coppers who didn’t seem to want to identify themselves?

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Chris

There is of course an independence-supporting echo chamber that assumes #BBCbias is a given amongst those of a similar constitutional mind and that ‘nobody’ watches it any more. They then get surprisingly uptight when it says something they don’t like, given that it’s supposedly talking to an empty room.

Oh it’s absolutely tangible if you name a unionist media platform viewership down, readership down, listenership down.

Believing the state broadcaster should be impartial is irrelevant as to whether those watching or listening are simply doing so in God’s waiting room.

There is some early polling that suggests the SNP’s fortunes are on the wane while support for independence remains in the mid-40s (excluding don’t knows). Being the party most associated with The Cause really isn’t going to save them, though it will be useful, for Labour in particular, if the SNP goes on assuming it will, right up to polling day when it will be too late.

Scandal after scandal has bruised both the Labour and Conservative parties over the years but never killed either off, there’s no real reason to expect an existential crisis for the SNP. If anything at Holyrood the D’Hondt formula will ensure in the absence of any upsurge in another pro-independence party (who?) they’ll remain the largest within that bloc, and so either the Government or largest opposition party.

It’s a long way to the next Scottish election although almost certainly Yousaf won’t make it that far.

In the long run, a broad yes movement permanently decoupled from one political party is more likely to produce a broader, more credible proposition, anyway. Yessers with an ounce of common sense ought to see that, and to be fair when I dip into their Twitter echo chambers, the thinking ones increasingly do.

You’re right, though, it is very, very funny. Have you seen the clip of the man from Govan trying to film the SNP Motorhome through the bars of the police pound, and getting righteously cross when challenged by two shady coppers who didn’t seem to want to identify themselves?

Although the man was clearly “a character” as they say it was very dystopian.

Hardly worth her own thread but the Hon. Member for the Student Union Bar is stepping down at the next election.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-66101123

SNP MP Mhairi Black is stepping down at the next general election.
Ms Black, the party's deputy leader at Westminster, became the parliament's youngest MP since 1832 when she was elected aged 20 in 2015.
She is the sixth SNP MP to announce they will not contest the next election, which is expected to be held in 2024.

I’m sure it has absolutely nothing to do with polling that suggests many traditionally Labour seats in west/central Scotland which the SNP has held for the last 10 years or so, may return to the fold next time round.

Mind you, if it really is because of the toxic working atmosphere at Westminster, which is the reason she has cited herself, then she’s just another SNP hack who is clearly only happy with a toxic atmosphere when its caused by their campaigning. Other forms of toxicity are clearly unacceptable.

[jfman]

More likely she has her eye on Humza’s job. Will no doubt find herself near the top of a regional list in 2026.

A wash and a haircut and she will be a whole new person. Easy enough done since she’s cosplaying as it is.

Originally Posted by jfman

More likely she has her eye on Humza’s job. Will no doubt find herself near the top of a regional list in 2026.

A wash and a haircut and she will be a whole new person. Easy enough done since she’s cosplaying as it is.

I wouldn’t be surprised if she does end up in Holyrood, though the chances of her getting an image makeover now are pretty slim I’d have thought. She gets dressed in the dark and that’s not going to change (to be fair, so do I, and I’ve never changed either )

A rando on Tw*tter this evening described this scenario as a ‘chicken run’, exiting Westminster right when she’s at greatest risk of getting unseated anyway, and then stealing a seat from another would-be SNP MSP. I have to say, when you look at the three leadership candidates from earlier this year, I’m not at all convinced of her chances of getting the job any time soon, or whenever wee Humza throws in the towel. Despite having held a clutch of salt-of-the-earth working class seats for the last decade the SNP really are still tartan Tories in their DNA and Mhairi’s Angry Clydeside Trot act isn’t likely to impress the voting membership. Let’s not forget the highly socially conservative and very middle class Kate Forbes was within a hair’s breadth of winning the race last time and most likely would have done without the outgoing leadership leaning on everyone to vote for wee Humza.