Britain outside the EU

[nffc]

Originally Posted by jfman

Random question.

The Mail on Sunday have a question in the poll they published today.

“Do you trust Boris to get Brexit done?”
Yes 43. No 48.

When is Brexit considered “done”?

When all the remoaners finish going on about it probably

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

It was you who said you saw little value in defining a timeframe, not me.

Just trying to be helpful...

I was not putting a timeframe on when Brexit would be done, just when I thought people would stop going on about it.

---------- Post added at 18:06 ---------- Previous post was at 17:56 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

Wow, that takes us back 40 years…

From the employees viewpoint, the Acquired Rights Directive (Inc. TUPE) was a very good thing.

There are less bureaucratic and less complicated ways of going about it. Like the Working Time Directive, the headline benefits are clear, but you need to look at the detail and the impact.

[Carth]

Brexit may possibly become 'history' when the EU itself finally implodes with all the infighting . . .


. . one can dream

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Just trying to be helpful...

I was not putting a timeframe on when Brexit would be done, just when I thought people would stop going on about it.

---------- Post added at 18:06 ---------- Previous post was at 17:56 ----------



There are less bureaucratic and less complicated ways of going about it. Like the Working Time Directive, the headline benefits are clear, but you need to look at the detail and the impact.

For example?

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Hugh

For example?

I think you need to read it, Hugh, and you will see for yourself.

By the way, have you tried reading the GDPR? It makes riveting reading, and ALL organisations with people records, even simply names and addresses of members or customers, have to comply with this.

If you think that’s reasonable, then I guess nothing will persuade you. But these Directives are a drag on business.

[Pierre]

For the the European project to work, the national identity of the countries participating in it need to be secondary.

Not sure that will work out.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ightwing-anger

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...feud-with-bloc

https://euobserver.com/democracy/153889

But hey, at least we can watch from the sidelines

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I think you need to read it, Hugh, and you will see for yourself.

You're the one that's argued there is a different way of doing it, so you must have an example?

By the way, have you tried reading the GDPR? It makes riveting reading, and ALL organisations with people records, even simply names and addresses of members or customers, have to comply with this.

Again, what's an example part of GDPR that you'd now change?

If you think that’s reasonable, then I guess nothing will persuade you. But these Directives are a drag on business.

All rules and obligation to business could be considered a 'drag' depending on what position you're stood in and who you want to benefit.

Why bother giving employees any rights? That's just a 'drag' on a business making profit for their owners or shareholders.

What about accounting laws? They're just a 'drag' as businesses need to employ people to create, maintain and audit the books.

[Carth]

Originally Posted by Carth

Brexit may possibly become 'history' when the EU itself finally implodes with all the infighting . . .


. . one can dream

Originally Posted by Pierre

For the the European project to work, the national identity of the countries participating in it need to be secondary.

Not sure that will work out.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ightwing-anger

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...feud-with-bloc

https://euobserver.com/democracy/153889

But hey, at least we can watch from the sidelines

Yep, seen all those (and more), it certainly hasn't looked all fine and dandy in the land of European Contentment for a while

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I think you need to read it, Hugh, and you will see for yourself.

By the way, have you tried reading the GDPR? It makes riveting reading, and ALL organisations with people records, even simply names and addresses of members or customers, have to comply with this.

If you think that’s reasonable, then I guess nothing will persuade you. But these Directives are a drag on business.

At length, as I was an IT Director when it was coming in, and had to ensure we were compliant.

And as for TUPE, I was involved/affected both as an employer and an employee, and I think it’s a good thing…

You’re very good at sweeping statements/complaints, but never actually detailed alternatives, just "make it simpler", and "drag on business" - you don’t seem to recognise the benefits/protections they gave employees.

[1andrew1]

This is not going doing well with Mail online readers, judging by the comments.

Ministers plan to relax immigration rules to make it easier for thousands of Indians to live and work in UK as government seeks closer ties with India to counter China influence

• Indian citizens could more freely live and work in the UK under new mooted rules
• Immigration curbs are a key point that could dominate UK-India 2022 trade talks
• Cabinet is said to be split over possibility of loosening border controls for India

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...e-work-UK.html

Some of the more recent comments include:

• I thought Brexit meant we would take back control of our borders? Seems we've been scammed!
• Absolutely despicable.
• This government needs to go and go fast! What the hell are they thinking?

[nffc]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

This is not going doing well with Mail online readers, judging by the comments.



https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...e-work-UK.html

Some of the more recent comments include:

I bet most of them love a good curry.


Seriously, this is absolutely the kind of migration we need.


India has a lot of highly skilled labour, they get a pittance for it over there, with our minimum wage they would get a lot more for doing the same job, at the same time, they fill vacancies we need filled and don't have the staff.


Let's not forget if we recruit migrant nurses and doctors from India or elsewhere they will no doubt do an excellent job in a sector which is grossly understaffed, solves plenty of issues there.


Some people are just blinkered with the idea of migration and think it's all about boats coming over the channel full of people wanting to sponge off our welfare system. It totally isn't. We don't need that at all but people wanting to come here, contribute to our society and work, should always be encouraged.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by nffc

I bet most of them love a good curry.

Seriously, this is absolutely the kind of migration we need.

India has a lot of highly skilled labour, they get a pittance for it over there, with our minimum wage they would get a lot more for doing the same job, at the same time, they fill vacancies we need filled and don't have the staff.

Doing the same job here they have the same costs of living as people living here. I don’t see how this is any different from driving down the wages of British people by importing cheap labour instead of allowing market forces to drive wages up.

Let's not forget if we recruit migrant nurses and doctors from India or elsewhere they will no doubt do an excellent job in a sector which is grossly understaffed, solves plenty of issues there.

I fail to see the benefit over upskilling our own workforce.

[nffc]

Originally Posted by jfman

Doing the same job here they have the same costs of living as people living here. I don’t see how this is any different from driving down the wages of British people by importing cheap labour instead of allowing market forces to drive wages up.



I fail to see the benefit over upskilling our own workforce.

Because that takes time!

Yes, ideally we should.


But let's not forget we have shortages now, especially in key sectors such as nursing, HGV driving, etc, mostly they have unfavourable conditions and require some skill to do.


Nursing is now graduate entry, has been for some years; even if right now the gov decided to do a massive drive to get more nurses, it'd take about 4 years to have a fresh, inexperienced group of staff ready to start. No good if we need them now. Even then once they're out there, they are working demanding 12hr shifts (I'd definitely make this 3 8hr shifts not 2 12 hr ones) in not exactly comfortable conditions so not sure why a lot would.


Likewise HGV drivers, the pay is cack, the working conditions are not much better (if you need the loo and there's no services, but have to make your schedule which is timed to the second) even when you've trained...


Most people won't do it, better for them to get their UC and watch sky tv all day...

[jfman]

Originally Posted by nffc

Most people won't do it, better for them to get their UC and watch sky tv all day...

If people won’t do jobs for the wages offered then employers should increase wages. That’s supply and demand. The core of capitalism.

If the businesses no longer have a profitable model paying above poverty wages then they should go to the wall, and stop skewing the markets with their existence by offering goods/services at rates below what the market can bear.

Importing labour from the developing world undermines the high wage, high skill economy we have been promised.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by jfman

If people won’t do jobs for the wages offered then employers should increase wages. That’s supply and demand. The core of capitalism.

If the businesses no longer have a profitable model paying above poverty wages then they should go to the wall, and stop skewing the markets with their existence by offering goods/services at rates below what the market can bear.

Importing labour from the developing world undermines the high wage, high skill economy we have been promised.

Yay!