Updated: Boris resigns as party leader

[tweetiepooh]

I would still say that minor fines for attending a party really is a bit like minor traffic offences, pay the fine and let it go. Ignorance isn't an excuse same as any other offence.


Organising a party with a bigger fine would be different, so those claiming unfairness because they were caught doing that and fined £1,000 and politco's only fined £50 is a non-starter.


What does need sorting is did any of them deliberately and intentionally lie. There is a difference between unintentionally telling a porky you believed to be true and misleading parliament or the nation.

[Sephiroth]

Boris must have known that indoor gatherings other than for work purposes (that means working and not a knees-up). He knew because he announced the laws.

Then he lied by saying he thought they were work events.

You can't announce laws and then genuinely believe that a violation was not a violation. Well boris could.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by tweetiepooh

I would still say that minor fines for attending a party really is a bit like minor traffic offences, pay the fine and let it go. Ignorance isn't an excuse same as any other offence.


Organising a party with a bigger fine would be different, so those claiming unfairness because they were caught doing that and fined £1,000 and politco's only fined £50 is a non-starter.


What does need sorting is did any of them deliberately and intentionally lie. There is a difference between unintentionally telling a porky you believed to be true and misleading parliament or the nation.

If you made the laws in the first place and communicated them to the nation via TV broadcasts, you'd be hard-pressed to come to any conclusion other than the one Seph has arrived at.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Boris must have known that indoor gatherings other than for work purposes (that means working and not a knees-up). He knew because he announced the laws.

Then he lied by saying he thought they were work events.

You can't announce laws and then genuinely believe that a violation was not a violation. Well boris could.

You are assuming that the police have interpreted the law correctly.

You can surely see why Boris and in fact all his advisors believed this to be a work event. He had just been to one meeting and was about to commence another when someone arrived with a cake. Nine minutes later, he commenced the scheduled meeting.

You call that a party?

Yet Boris haters on here think that Sir Kier was not breaking the law when he had a beer and food with his mates after campaigning. He didn’t have to do that. The hotel he was staying in served food, which initially he denied. He’s lucky not to have had cake as a dessert then…

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

You are assuming that the police have interpreted the law correctly.

You can surely see why Boris and in fact all his advisors believed this to be a work event. He had just been to one meeting and was about to commence another when someone arrived with a cake. Nine minutes later, he commenced the scheduled meeting.

You call that a party?

Yet Boris haters on here think that Sir Kier was not breaking the law when he had a beer and food with his mates after campaigning. He didn’t have to do that. The hotel he was staying in served food, which initially he denied. He’s lucky not to have had cake as a dessert then…

I didn't call that a party. I pointed out that Boris really knew full well that the gathering(s) were not work events within the meaning of the law.

Btw, I would dearly like Starmer to get got for breaking the same law.
He's a hypocrite, having supported Corbyn and fought to subvert Brexit.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

I didn't call that a party. I pointed out that Boris really knew full well that the gathering(s) were not work events within the meaning of the law.

Btw, I would dearly like Starmer to get got for breaking the same law.
He's a hypocrite, having supported Corbyn and fought to subvert Brexit.

I will just say that there were no additional risks of spreading Covid with the birthday cake incident. All present were colleagues that they associated with all the time - it was not a social event. They were at work!

I don’t think Boris or Sir Kier broke the rules. But if one is fined, so should the other be. At least that would be consistent, even if equally incorrect judgements.

[GrimUpNorth]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I will just say that there were no additional risks of spreading Covid with the birthday cake incident. All present were colleagues that they associated with all the time - it was not a social event. They were at work!

I don’t think Boris or Sir Kier broke the rules. But if one is fined, so should the other be. At least that would be consistent, even if equally incorrect judgements.

Be careful Old Boy, you'll have someone's eye out with your dummy at this rate!

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I will just say that there were no additional risks of spreading Covid with the birthday cake incident. All present were colleagues that they associated with all the time - it was not a social event. They were at work!

I don’t think Boris or Sir Kier broke the rules. But if one is fined, so should the other be. At least that would be consistent, even if equally incorrect judgements.

OLD BOY accidentally overlooks the fact that the incidents under discussion took place at different times under different rules/guidelines…

[richard-john56]

Lying to Parliament

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I will just say that there were no additional risks of spreading Covid with the birthday cake incident. All present were colleagues that they associated with all the time - it was not a social event. They were at work!

I don’t think Boris or Sir Kier broke the rules. But if one is fined, so should the other be. At least that would be consistent, even if equally incorrect judgements.

I take it that you've discarded your own advice to wait until the Sue Gray Report until passing judgment? Or should that waiting advice only be heeded
by people like Seph and me who feel that the evidence more than adequately shows the fined Johnson to be guilty of breaking his own rules?

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I take it that you've discarded your own advice to wait until the Sue Gray Report until passing judgment? Or should that waiting advice only be heeded
by people like Seph and me who feel that the evidence more than adequately shows the fined Johnson to be guilty of breaking his own rules?

Andrew has it exactly right.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I take it that you've discarded your own advice to wait until the Sue Gray Report until passing judgment? Or should that waiting advice only be heeded
by people like Seph and me who feel that the evidence more than adequately shows the fined Johnson to be guilty of breaking his own rules?

I am commenting on the issuing of a fine to one and not the other. We know enough now about the presentation of a birthday cake to comment, but we still need further information about the others.

And the birthday cake incident was not primarily a social event. Boris was attending meetings - that was the primary event.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

people like Seph and me who feel that the evidence more than adequately shows the fined Johnson to be guilty of breaking his own rules?

I think it's clear he did, but I also think it's clear Starmer did too. So a curse on all your houses.

As the reports are being drip fed out, it's looking like Beer & Curry gate was a bigger gathering than Birthday cake gate (but not Downing Street Garden Gate).

Starmer who has been laying into Johnson thickly now for over 4 months, is just looking like a massive hypocrite, coupled with Rayner who is outraged by a misogynistic story, she actually started herself. Labour are a useless opposition who can't make any capital on a barely functioning, incompetent government.

Our political system is at rock bottom at the moment.

Starmer questioned on Beergate on GMB, this morning as it is now revealed 30 people were at the event he was at when he was filmed last year drinking beer during lockdown rules.

Skip to 8:15 Minutes to get to Beergate questioning.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Pierre

I think it's clear he did, but I also think it's clear Starmer did too. So a curse on all your houses.

As the reports are being drip fed out, it's looking like Beer & Curry gate was a bigger gathering than Birthday cake gate (but not Downing Street Garden Gate).

Starmer who has been laying into Johnson thickly now for over 4 months, is just looking like a massive hypocrite, coupled with Rayner who is outraged by a misogynistic story, she actually started herself. Labour are a useless opposition who can't make any capital on a barely functioning, incompetent government.

Our political system is at rock bottom at the moment.

Rayner did not start the story. I provided a link before that showed this. She merely laughed off a story from January in the Mail.

Starmer's meal and beer took place at a different time and different set of rules than Johnson and he has been cleared. If there was any meat on the bones of this story, an investigation would be taking place.

It's theoretically hard for Opposition parties to capitalise on the government's mistakes if people can't recall that Covid rules changed over time, but the polls do seem to be showing that Opposition parties are being successful here. Despite the great efforts by the Mail to come to Johnson's rescue.

If you believe Nadine Dorries, you would think Starmer had a curry in 2021 with Frank Dobson who died in 2019! She has responsibility for media in the UK as she is head of DCMS, yet posts such misleading information. This is a good indicator of the poor health of our political system which I agree with you on.