Home News Forum Articles
  Welcome back Join CF
You are here You are here: Home | Forum | Coronavirus

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most of the discussions, articles and other free features. By joining our Virgin Media community you will have full access to all discussions, be able to view and post threads, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own images/photos, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please join our community today.


Welcome to Cable Forum
Go Back   Cable Forum > General Discussion > Current Affairs

Coronavirus
View Poll Results: When you become eligible for the Covid Vaccine, would you take it?
Yes 76 84.44%
No 8 8.89%
Unsure 6 6.67%
Voters: 90. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-04-2021, 09:57   #4606
Sephiroth
Simples
 
Sephiroth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: RG41
Services: 1 Gbps; Hub 4 MM; ASUS RT-AX88U; Ultimate VOLT. BT Infinity2; Devolo 1200AV
Posts: 11,955
Sephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny star
Sephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny starSephiroth has a nice shiny star
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
Indeed, with good honest UK politicians and regulators making the decision we can be 100% confident that there’s no corruption in their processes. No drinking buddies, party donors etc. The sort of thing you’d expect from Europe.
From Europe I expect to find Merkel’s convenient discard, VDL, who couldn’t sort out the corruption in her Defence Ministry’s contracts.


Edit; Also Sarkozy who is doing time for corruption.
__________________
Seph.

My advice is at your risk.

Last edited by Sephiroth; 06-04-2021 at 10:09.
Sephiroth is offline  
Advertisement
Old 06-04-2021, 10:05   #4607
jonbxx
cf.mega poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: #Plagueisland
Age: 53
Services: VM VIP Pack
Posts: 1,664
jonbxx has a bronzed appealjonbxx has a bronzed appeal
jonbxx has a bronzed appealjonbxx has a bronzed appealjonbxx has a bronzed appealjonbxx has a bronzed appealjonbxx has a bronzed appealjonbxx has a bronzed appealjonbxx has a bronzed appeal
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
Channel 4 News reporting that restrictions could be made on the AZ vaccine in the UK on under 30s but the MHRA saying “no decision has been made”.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...-for-under-30s

The Guardian even dug up Professor Pantsdown for a quote. I’m sure the story over the weekend about giving people in their 20s the J&J vaccine “to allow them to get one shot and jet off on holiday” is conveniently timed and 100% unlinked.
How quickly will AstraZeneca become a Swedish company if the vaccine is restricted. Much like Andy Murray is Scottish when he loses and British when he wins
jonbxx is offline  
Old 06-04-2021, 10:19   #4608
jfman
Architect of Ideas
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,223
jfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronze
jfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronze
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbxx View Post
How quickly will AstraZeneca become a Swedish company if the vaccine is restricted. Much like Andy Murray is Scottish when he loses and British when he wins
Nah, their place in the great British success story is cemented as long as we avoid a deadly fourth wave.

I do hope they get to the bottom of the risk factors around clotting issue though - if this has to turn into an annual vaccine safety will be paramount to public confidence and "emergency use" is an easy decision knee deep in a pandemic, it might not always be so straightforward.
jfman is offline  
Old 06-04-2021, 10:54   #4609
Carth
cf.mega poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: At the Leaving door
Posts: 4,050
Carth has a bronze arrayCarth has a bronze arrayCarth has a bronze array
Carth has a bronze arrayCarth has a bronze arrayCarth has a bronze arrayCarth has a bronze arrayCarth has a bronze arrayCarth has a bronze arrayCarth has a bronze arrayCarth has a bronze arrayCarth has a bronze arrayCarth has a bronze arrayCarth has a bronze arrayCarth has a bronze array
Re: Coronavirus

There's a risk factor in everything we do, and we need to look at the risk of death/serious illness from a blood clot, as opposed to the risk of death/serious illness from catching Covid.

In the current state of things, we also need to factor in the difference between having the vaccination or not, which introduces a greater risk of transmission to others from those who don't vaccinate (and also a probably reduced lifestyle for those who don't).

I think it's developing into a 'bark is worse than the bite' scenario, where people are more concerned about a possible blood clot than catching & transmitting Covid

Regarding the yearly vaccination, by that time we will (hopefully) have better figures on the vaccine and it's side effects.
Carth is offline  
Old 06-04-2021, 11:19   #4610
Chris
Trollsplatter
Cable Forum Team
 
Chris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: North of Watford
Services: Humane elimination of all common Internet pests
Posts: 36,870
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Re: Coronavirus

30 cases out of 18 million really ought to be re-stated every time this is discussed, because some of the commentary around this is starting to make it sound like taking the AZ vaccine is Russian roulette.

If there is a direct causal link then the odds of getting a blood clot from the vaccine are still ridiculously low. If there is a direct causal link, then some of the reported cases will still not have been caused by the vaccine because these things occur naturally in the population at a low rate anyway.

The danger here is that we talk ourselves into losing confidence in the vaccine for no other reason that talking about the latest covid-related gossip is now the national pastime.

If I were a betting man, I’d bet that the single-dose J&J vaccine is offered to younger people, and that the official advice underpinning that is that this is a harder-to-reach age group and a single vaccine is therefore advantageous. That will allow AZ to be restricted from the age group where it *might* pose an identifiable risk, without there being any loud public statements that undermine overall confidence in the AZ vaccine.

Meanwhile, as research continues, if there is a link, then it ought to be possible to identify why one vaccine causes clots and another doesn’t. Vaccines can and do get reformulated when necessary.
Chris is offline  
Old 06-04-2021, 11:35   #4611
jfman
Architect of Ideas
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,223
jfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronze
jfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronze
Re: Coronavirus

I don't think there's any doubt about the fact there's an identifiable risk given it's independently noted in the UK, Germany and others.

The question is whether it's an acceptable risk, which for a vaccination programme by consent hits problems for the members of the public who have been told they are extremely low risk of Covid complications anyway.
jfman is offline  
Old 06-04-2021, 11:49   #4612
jonbxx
cf.mega poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: #Plagueisland
Age: 53
Services: VM VIP Pack
Posts: 1,664
jonbxx has a bronzed appealjonbxx has a bronzed appeal
jonbxx has a bronzed appealjonbxx has a bronzed appealjonbxx has a bronzed appealjonbxx has a bronzed appealjonbxx has a bronzed appealjonbxx has a bronzed appealjonbxx has a bronzed appeal
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris View Post
30 cases out of 18 million really ought to be re-stated every time this is discussed, because some of the commentary around this is starting to make it sound like taking the AZ vaccine is Russian roulette.

If there is a direct causal link then the odds of getting a blood clot from the vaccine are still ridiculously low. If there is a direct causal link, then some of the reported cases will still not have been caused by the vaccine because these things occur naturally in the population at a low rate anyway.

The danger here is that we talk ourselves into losing confidence in the vaccine for no other reason that talking about the latest covid-related gossip is now the national pastime.

If I were a betting man, I’d bet that the single-dose J&J vaccine is offered to younger people, and that the official advice underpinning that is that this is a harder-to-reach age group and a single vaccine is therefore advantageous. That will allow AZ to be restricted from the age group where it *might* pose an identifiable risk, without there being any loud public statements that undermine overall confidence in the AZ vaccine.

Meanwhile, as research continues, if there is a link, then it ought to be possible to identify why one vaccine causes clots and another doesn’t. Vaccines can and do get reformulated when necessary.
Pretty much this - if there is a small risk of increased clotting events in certain populations and there are enough vaccines of different types to go around, then recommending AZ for those at a lower risk and Pfizer, Janssen, Moderna and Novavax for everyone else seems sensible.

That said, if you're in an 'at risk' group for clotting events and already have had your first shot of AZ, not sure what's going to happen there - mix and match or take the risk of a second shot of AZ?
jonbxx is offline  
Old 06-04-2021, 13:03   #4613
jfman
Architect of Ideas
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,223
jfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronze
jfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronze
Re: Coronavirus

Suspect they'll apply the logic that they didn't get complications the first time and it's extremely rare rather than introduce mix and match.
jfman is offline  
Old 06-04-2021, 13:10   #4614
1andrew1
cf.mega poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,187
1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze
1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
COVID-19: UK-made Valneva coronavirus vaccine produces 'strong immune response' in early trials, says Matt Hancock
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-...ncock-12267367
1andrew1 is offline  
Old 06-04-2021, 14:46   #4615
Pierre
The Dark Satanic Mills
 
Pierre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: floating in the ether
Posts: 11,985
Pierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny stars
Pierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny stars
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris View Post
30 cases out of 18 million really ought to be re-stated every time this is discussed, because some of the commentary around this is starting to make it sound like taking the AZ vaccine is Russian roulette.

If there is a direct causal link then the odds of getting a blood clot from the vaccine are still ridiculously low. If there is a direct causal link, then some of the reported cases will still not have been caused by the vaccine because these things occur naturally in the population at a low rate anyway.

The danger here is that we talk ourselves into losing confidence in the vaccine for no other reason that talking about the latest covid-related gossip is now the national pastime.

If I were a betting man, I’d bet that the single-dose J&J vaccine is offered to younger people, and that the official advice underpinning that is that this is a harder-to-reach age group and a single vaccine is therefore advantageous. That will allow AZ to be restricted from the age group where it *might* pose an identifiable risk, without there being any loud public statements that undermine overall confidence in the AZ vaccine.

Meanwhile, as research continues, if there is a link, then it ought to be possible to identify why one vaccine causes clots and another doesn’t. Vaccines can and do get reformulated when necessary.
30 cases out of 18million subjects is lower than what you expect in the general population.

I wonder how many people have fallen and broken their arm since having the vaccine? No doubt there could causal relationship between the vaccine and broken limbs if you looked hard enough.
__________________
The wheel's still turning but the hamsters dead.
Pierre is offline  
Old 06-04-2021, 14:54   #4616
jfman
Architect of Ideas
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,223
jfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronze
jfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronze
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
30 cases out of 18million subjects is lower than what you expect in the general population.

I wonder how many people have fallen and broken their arm since having the vaccine? No doubt there could causal relationship between the vaccine and broken limbs if you looked hard enough.
It isn’t though, that’s why almost everyone is investigating.

Incidence of these rare blood clots could be as low as 2 per million in a 12 month period. Germany is seeing a higher incidence than the UK, as are other EU nations who based on their hapless vaccine rollout wouldn’t expect to see any at all.

The uneven distribution by age, sex, presumably is making it even more noteworthy.

Last edited by jfman; 06-04-2021 at 14:59.
jfman is offline  
Old 06-04-2021, 15:04   #4617
1andrew1
cf.mega poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,187
1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze
1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze1andrew1 is cast in bronze
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
30 cases out of 18million subjects is lower than what you expect in the general population.

I wonder how many people have fallen and broken their arm since having the vaccine? No doubt there could causal relationship between the vaccine and broken limbs if you looked hard enough.
The key thing is the blood clots have not occurred with the other Covid 19 vaccines.

I looked into why other countries throughout the world were being so cautious. One element is that they have a far higher level of vaccine scepticism - polls in France suggest half the population may decline a vaccine. So, unless statistically small issues are exhaustively investigated, populations may refuse the vaccine even if it is rolled out. Waiting and investigating may result in a higher uptake rate.

Last edited by 1andrew1; 06-04-2021 at 15:09.
1andrew1 is offline  
Old 06-04-2021, 15:17   #4618
jfman
Architect of Ideas
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,223
jfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronze
jfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronze
Re: Coronavirus

It’ll be a good one for the public inquiry to find out what the MHRA knew and when under their “yellow card” scheme. It would seem odd for a statistically significant deviation to be observed in the hapless EU programme but not first emerge in the world beating UK vaccination programme.
jfman is offline  
Old 06-04-2021, 16:05   #4619
jonbxx
cf.mega poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: #Plagueisland
Age: 53
Services: VM VIP Pack
Posts: 1,664
jonbxx has a bronzed appealjonbxx has a bronzed appeal
jonbxx has a bronzed appealjonbxx has a bronzed appealjonbxx has a bronzed appealjonbxx has a bronzed appealjonbxx has a bronzed appealjonbxx has a bronzed appealjonbxx has a bronzed appeal
Re: Coronavirus

It's good at least to see that the vigilance systems work. From the noises of various regulatory bodies, it seems like women under 50 are at a higher than normal risk. Of course, the UK has been working on the oldest most vulnerable populations first so significant numbers in the UK may not have popped up until now.

If I have time later, I might have a look at Norway's vaccine prioritisation process to see if health workers or teachers were prioritised earlier which would then have exposed a much younger cohort earlier than the UK's process.
jonbxx is offline  
Old 06-04-2021, 16:48   #4620
Pierre
The Dark Satanic Mills
 
Pierre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: floating in the ether
Posts: 11,985
Pierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny stars
Pierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny starsPierre has a pair of shiny stars
Re: Coronavirus

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
It isn’t though, that’s why almost everyone is investigating.

Incidence of these rare blood clots could be as low as 2 per million in a 12 month period.
As low as two or as high a five per million that means, using 18million as a stake in the ground, but obviously the vaccinated number will go up, that you would expect to see anywhere between 36 - 90 cases, in that cohort of 18 million naturally.

Quote:
The uneven distribution by age, sex, presumably is making it even more noteworthy.
As Chris pointed out some weeks ago, it seems to be young women affected mostly. A section most likely to take contraception pills, that also cause blood clots as a side affect.

https://www.stoptheclot.org/about-cl...control_clots/

---------- Post added at 15:48 ---------- Previous post was at 15:38 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
The key thing is the blood clots have not occurred with the other Covid 19 vaccines.
That is not correct

Quote:
In the U.S., a Miami physician died following complications of immune thrombocytopenic purpura (ITP) after his first dose of the Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine. ITP is a rare autoimmune condition in which the body generates autoantibodies to its own platelets, resulting in low platelet counts, blood clots, and bleeding if the platelet count drops very low. About 50,000 adults are diagnosed with ITP in the U.S. per year. Risk is increased in young women and people with other autoimmune conditions.

In a case series, James Bussel, MD, and colleagues reviewed 20 reports of thrombocytopenia after receipt of the Pfizer and Moderna COVID-19 vaccines in the U.S. Bussel is professor emeritus of pediatrics at Weill Cornell Medical College in New York City who has published extensively on ITP. His group found that 17 of these patients did not have pre-existing thrombocytopenia. Patients' median age was 41 and 11 were women.

"It is not surprising that 17 possible de novo cases would be detected among the well over 20 million people who have received at least one dose of these two vaccines in the United States as of February
https://www.medpagetoday.com/special...clusives/91813

More investigations are required but I would think it is still too early to put a causal link to these issues at the hands of the vaccines.
__________________
The wheel's still turning but the hamsters dead.
Pierre is offline  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 4 (0 members and 4 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 13:11.


Server: osmium.zmnt.uk
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.