Police to get tough on internet trolls.

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Another suicide, this time a paramedic:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-59741839.amp

Nobody knows what someone is going through in private and the effects that their actions can cause.

To question my disability because I have been successful in posting coherently is totally out of order. The two that are doing it have no idea what accessibility aids I use, how many people facilitate my attempts to lead a normal life or the number of times that I have had to edit or abandon posts.

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People do have the right not to be abused, harassed, discriminated against etc online and this is what these new laws aim to achieve.

The consultation has now closed, but you as an individual had the right to put your view forward.

No one (to the best of my knowledge) questions your disability - we question your repeated attempts to conflate disagreement with what you post with your disability…

[Blackshep]

If people are being harassed, abused or mistreated online there are already criminal law remedies for it and have been for quite sometime. Life isn't guaranteed to be totally safe or free from idiots but you cannot expect everything to have a law apart from the stupidity of that the more complex the law becomes the more often then not it fails in it's intended aims. I have a disability but just because I do I don't expect the world to adapt to me I've had to adapt to it personally and professionally and that's how it should be.

True free speech is speech without control meaning we may hear thing's that upset, offend or disturb us and again we need to use those experiences to strengthen ourselves and to learn to oppose ignorance and hate. You don't get rid of ignorance and hate by law you drive it underground concentrating it in echo chambers's without opposition or differing views further cementing it. You cannot say you support free speech and then call for and support it's restriction you have to take the bad with the good and laws rarely apply context.

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by Russ

Yet you feel perfectly entitled to incorrectly comment and assume about the disability of others.

You won’t see it but the rest of us can see the irony of that post going in to orbit.

Just wow.

No, I comment upon the effects of various conditions that I know something about.

---------- Post added at 03:29 ---------- Previous post was at 03:27 ----------

Originally Posted by Paul

No, its not.

You article link is broken, it should be https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-59741839

Yes it is. Would someone go up to a wheelchair user and question their disability because they saw them walking the previous day? I think not.

---------- Post added at 03:38 ---------- Previous post was at 03:29 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

No one (to the best of my knowledge) questions your disability - we question your repeated attempts to conflate disagreement with what you post with your disability…

Both Pierre and Russ have questioned the effects of my disability because of the way that I post.

In general, when I do get things wrong, instead of explaining things in a right manner and trying to help me, I am met with snide, rude and discriminatory remarks by various people. These are often deliberately crafted to publically humiliate or embarrass me as a disabled person.

If someone here developed dementia (about 50% will), would members be allowed to do the same thing when they forget things, ask the same question shortly after having already asked it etc?

I have no problem with interacting with others with differing views (that's a major part of internet forums), the issue is the issues outlined in paragraph two.

---------- Post added at 04:16 ---------- Previous post was at 03:38 ----------

Originally Posted by Blackshep

If people are being harassed, abused or mistreated online there are already criminal law remedies for it and have been for quite sometime. Life isn't guaranteed to be totally safe or free from idiots but you cannot expect everything to have a law apart from the stupidity of that the more complex the law becomes the more often then not it fails in it's intended aims. I have a disability but just because I do I don't expect the world to adapt to me I've had to adapt to it personally and professionally and that's how it should be.

True free speech is speech without control meaning we may hear thing's that upset, offend or disturb us and again we need to use those experiences to strengthen ourselves and to learn to oppose ignorance and hate. You don't get rid of ignorance and hate by law you drive it underground concentrating it in echo chambers's without opposition or differing views further cementing it. You cannot say you support free speech and then call for and support it's restriction you have to take the bad with the good and laws rarely apply context.

Yes, there are laws already in place to prevent companies and individuals from making inappropriate comments. I have used them myself and find that the majority change their attitude after a little bit of education, the rest settle out of court and a minority had to be put through the legal process. I am lucky in that I get free legal advice through work, but the majority will not have this privilege.

These new laws aim to make the online experience a much better place for both protected groups (including children) and beyond.

I have changed the attitude of various individuals & companies, received recompense for the effects caused and/or had various payments made to charity on my behalf. I have offered to help pay towards the running costs of this site, gave forum members an opportu nity to help me choose which charities to support and offered food to those struggling because of the Government's benefit cuts.

I don't expect to be thanked, but neither do I expect to be subject to snide, acerbic comments and generally belittled for exercising my legal rights and sharing the proceeds of any recompense.

We will have to agree to disagree regarding your belief that the minority should adapt for the majority. Thankfully, our society agrees with me and we have efforts to adapt to the minority who need things being made accessible in braille, wheelchair accessibility ramps, induction loops etc.

Despite this, disabled people do try to adapt to the majority non disabled world. Sometimes this is because they have no other choice, eg going down stairs on their bottom, or because they want to appear 'normal' as a matter of personal pride because of the negative connotations associated with disability.

Some even attempt to outright reject the notion that they are disabled at all and try to ally themselves with non disabled people, whilst insulting fellow disabled people in a desperate attempt to try and convince themselves that they are not disabled. I often compare this to the black comedians of the seventies who told racist jokes to appease white people.

I do not support the notion of total free speech for, what I hope, are obvious reasons. Heck, you can't even say anything that you want on this (and other) forums!

I don't mean that we shouldn't be allowed to openly disagree with, for example, the Government, but neither should people be allowed to do something like openly mock someone with a facial disfigurement.

A late member on here who was severely sight impaired claimed that he had received a PM saying that he should have been drowned at birth. These attitudes don't come from nowhere, they occur by stealth and this is why inappropriate behaviour needs nipping in the bud before it deteriorates to this level.

We have the right to free speech within defined reasonable parameters and this worked well for many years, but the internet changed this. The Government tried the route of self regulation, but this failed miserably, hence the need for new statutory legislation.

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Yes it is. Would someone go up to a wheelchair user and question their disability because they saw them walking the previous day? I think not.

Nope, it isnt, its time you realised that.
You clearly fail [completely] to grasp the difference between meeting people in real life, and the internet.

On the internet (in a forum, for example) anyone can say they are male, female, black, white, disabled, or whatever they want.
Everyone else has zero proof that its actually true. So yes, they have every right to question it, especially when peoples actions do not match what they state.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

No, I comment upon the effects of various conditions that I know something about.

No, you comment on conditions you think you know about, you proven wrong then you disappear off the forum for a week or two.

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Originally Posted by Paul

On the internet (in a forum, for example) anyone can say they are male, female, black, white, disabled, or whatever they want.
Everyone else has zero proof that its actually true. So yes, they have every right to question it, especially when peoples actions do not match what they state.

Nail on head

[joglynne]

I have not wanted to enter this thread until today as I find that so much of what has been written by the OP is an attempt to try to prove he is the only person with the ability and insight to support those with unseen disabilities and that we, the members of this forum, need some sort of education in order to realise disabled people exist and that they, at times, need help and yes, at times, legal protection.

I accept he has problems but his confrontational approach to any one of you on here who disagrees with his fanatical need to fight every disabled persons perceived battle in such an aggressive manner does those of us on here with disabilities no favours.
'

Originally Posted by Paul

Nope, it isnt, its time you realised that.
You clearly fail [completely] to grasp the difference between meeting people in real life, and the internet.

On the internet (in a forum, for example) anyone can say they are male, female, black, white, disabled, or whatever they want.
Everyone else has zero proof that its actually true. So yes, they have every right to question it, especially when peoples actions do not match what they state.

Well said Paul. This virtual community has always supported it's members even though few us of know each other in real life. I could pass virtually everyone in the street and never know.

We have had several very disabled members who managed to put their disabilities aside and I can only speak for myself when I say that I learned more from them, including trying to read braille and learning how to ignore grumpy posts, about coping with disabilities than I have have learned from the continual 'educational' and confrontational postings of Mr Coulter.

[Russ]

Now that needed to be said

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by joglynne

I have not wanted to enter this thread until today as I find that so much of what has been written by the OP is an attempt to try to prove he is the only person with the ability and insight to support those with unseen disabilities and that we, the members of this forum, need some sort of education in order to realise disabled people exist and that they, at times, need help and yes, at times, legal protection.

I accept he has problems but his confrontational approach to any one of you on here who disagrees with his fanatical need to fight every disabled persons perceived battle in such an aggressive manner does those of us on here with disabilities no favours.
'

Well said Paul. This virtual community has always supported it's members even though few us of know each other in real life. I could pass virtually everyone in the street and never know.

We have had several very disabled members who managed to put their disabilities aside and I can only speak for myself when I say that I learned more from them, including trying to read braille and learning how to ignore grumpy posts, about coping with disabilities than I have have learned from the continual 'educational' and confrontational postings of Mr Coulter.

That well and truly hit the nail on the head. There is a time for everything and i am one of those posters who has not been involved in the threads on here about disabilities. I am classed as disabled, i have lost the vision in my left eye due to age-related macular degeneration. In addition 15 years working on tanks in the army left me with damaged upper frequency hearing loss which means i must wear hearing aids for both ears. I don't run around telling people i am disabled, i do not expect people to make allowances for me at work. I prefer to get on with my life in the only way i know and that is day to day.

[Blackshep]

Richard you forgot a rather large group of disabled people of which I'm one and know many more who are not defined by our disability and work everyday to overcome the limitations it puts on us. You create more trouble for disabled people then you realise or would accept with your confrontational approach that has you as some champion of disabled people more knowing then others. If a person is stalked, harassed, abused or mistreated on the internet there are already criminal laws to deal with them and the new proposals will not give the safety you think.

This proposed legislation will not I repeat WILL NOT end ignorance and hatred of disabled people it will drive it into groups of like minded people who will constantly reinforce the ignorance and hatred without any chance for them to be challenged or opposed by others it will compound the problem. When you create echo chambers you increase the possibility of escalation to physical violence because no opposing view is seen or heard. You cannot legislate away every problem that comes from personal interaction be it offline or online but you can end up a very lonely and bitter person if you try.

As a disabled person whose suffered from ignorance and hate in the past I do not support this proposal and I made that clear when I was able as did many other disabled people, don't talk as though your our representative because your not.

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Blackshep

Richard you forgot a rather large group of disabled people of which I'm one and know many more who are not defined by our disability and work everyday to overcome the limitations it puts on us. You create more trouble for disabled people then you realise or would accept with your confrontational approach that has you as some champion of disabled people more knowing then others. If a person is stalked, harassed, abused or mistreated on the internet there are already criminal laws to deal with them and the new proposals will not give the safety you think.

This proposed legislation will not I repeat WILL NOT end ignorance and hatred of disabled people it will drive it into groups of like minded people who will constantly reinforce the ignorance and hatred without any chance for them to be challenged or opposed by others it will compound the problem. When you create echo chambers you increase the possibility of escalation to physical violence because no opposing view is seen or heard. You cannot legislate away every problem that comes from personal interaction be it offline or online but you can end up a very lonely and bitter person if you try.

As a disabled person whose suffered from ignorance and hate in the past I do not support this proposal and I made that clear when I was able as did many other disabled people, don't talk as though your our representative because your not.

Originally Posted by Blackshep

Richard you forgot a rather large group of disabled people of which I'm one and know many more who are not defined by our disability and work everyday to overcome the limitations it puts on us. You create more trouble for disabled people then you realise or would accept with your confrontational approach that has you as some champion of disabled people more knowing then others. If a person is stalked, harassed, abused or mistreated on the internet there are already criminal laws to deal with them and the new proposals will not give the safety you think.

This proposed legislation will not I repeat WILL NOT end ignorance and hatred of disabled people it will drive it into groups of like minded people who will constantly reinforce the ignorance and hatred without any chance for them to be challenged or opposed by others it will compound the problem. When you create echo chambers you increase the possibility of escalation to physical violence because no opposing view is seen or heard. You cannot legislate away every problem that comes from personal interaction be it offline or online but you can end up a very lonely and bitter person if you try.

As a disabled person whose suffered from ignorance and hate in the past I do not support this proposal and I made that clear when I was able as did many other disabled people, don't talk as though your our representative because your not.

[joglynne]

Originally Posted by Blackshep

Richard you forgot a rather large group of disabled people of which I'm one and know many more who are not defined by our disability and work everyday to overcome the limitations it puts on us. You create more trouble for disabled people then you realise or would accept with your confrontational approach that has you as some champion of disabled people more knowing then others. If a person is stalked, harassed, abused or mistreated on the internet there are already criminal laws to deal with them and the new proposals will not give the safety you think.

This proposed legislation will not I repeat WILL NOT end ignorance and hatred of disabled people it will drive it into groups of like minded people who will constantly reinforce the ignorance and hatred without any chance for them to be challenged or opposed by others it will compound the problem. When you create echo chambers you increase the possibility of escalation to physical violence because no opposing view is seen or heard. You cannot legislate away every problem that comes from personal interaction be it offline or online but you can end up a very lonely and bitter person if you try.

As a disabled person whose suffered from ignorance and hate in the past I do not support this proposal and I made that clear when I was able as did many other disabled people, don't talk as though your our representative because your not.

Great post. Totally agree with everything you have written.

[peanut]

Originally Posted by joglynne

Great post. Totally agree with everything you have written.

Also got to agree with the recent posts. Disabilities come in all shapes and sizes. I haven't been a recipient of any kind of abuse, mainly because of the company I keep and the limited amount of information I give out. Any abuse of any kind aimed at myself would be just water off a ducks back. And any that I've came across in general I just totally ignore.

I don't think the above posts will get a reply which is a shame so it'll just continue onwards for him. If he spent half of the time looking for funny cat videos than looking for something to offended by he'll be a much happier person.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by peanut

Also got to agree with the recent posts. Disabilities come in all shapes and sizes. I haven't been a recipient of any kind of abuse, mainly because of the company I keep and the limited amount of information I give out. Any abuse of any kind aimed at myself would be just water off a ducks back. And any that I've came across in general I just totally ignore.

I don't think the above posts will get a reply which is a shame so it'll just continue onwards for him. If he spent half of the time looking for funny cat videos than looking for something to offended by he'll be a much happier person.

I do like a funny cat video, guess what i am about to do to cheer myself up for the day

[Blackshep]

I'm partial to puppy video's myself ��.