Britain outside the EU

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Damien

It is a weird framing. I am not quite sure he meant to put it like that because it does leave the question open on that if it's so good for NI to have access to the single market then why not the rest of the U.K?

Agreed. It's weird framing because we've been told all along that Great Britain still has access to the EU market.

[heero_yuy]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Agreed. It's weird framing because we've been told all along that Great Britain still has access to the EU market.

We have the same access as America, China, India, Japan et al.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

We have the same access as America, China, India, Japan et al.

Nope, we probably have similar access to Japan but China for one has tariffs on its car exports to the EU. Cars exported there from Japan and the UK do not attract tariffs.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

This isn't what we voted for, a few years back we left because we were a vassal state but now instead of that N Ireland is in a special privileged position

What's wrong with NI being in a privileged position? Norway pays into the EU for the privilege of being in the Single Market. NI got a free pass because of the Belfast Agreement.

Or did you mean something else?

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Agreed. It's weird framing because we've been told all along that Great Britain still has access to the EU market.

access != frictionless access

---------- Post added at 21:43 ---------- Previous post was at 21:37 ----------

It is quite significant that we now have a Tory leave government admitting that we are better off, in economic terms, as part of the EU SM.

All we have left are the ideological zealots who are content for the country to be damaged, in all meanings of that word, as long as they have their sovrinty purity. It is quite remarkable how much pain they are content to see inflicted in order that they maintain their religious high ground. Mark you, it is normally those who are not materially affected by this debacle that shout the loudest.

---------- Post added at 21:47 ---------- Previous post was at 21:43 ----------

I know its been said that Farage is not the brightest bulb in the box but his latest tweet:

There is now an exodus of young, talented people to Italy and Portugal. The 1970s brain drain is back. Tory party is totally useless.

after reading this article:

Milan Luxury Real Estate Booms as Bankers Leave London for Italy

The market for luxury flats in Milan is booming as bankers, fund managers and private equity investors are flocking to Italy’s financial capital.

Thousands of foreigners and Italian nationals have relocated to the country since the government started granting generous tax breaks in 2017 to lure new arrivals. That has helped tilt Milan’s real estate market toward the high-end, especially as the city has become a popular landing spot for finance workers leaving London in the wake of Brexit.

Very, very funny ...

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

What's wrong with NI being in a privileged position? Norway pays into the EU for the privilege of being in the Single Market. NI got a free pass because of the Belfast Agreement.

Or did you mean something else?

I mean we voted to leave all that, not for one part of the country to remain in, we were told by the reigning party that this wasn't an issue and Teresa Villiers even went as far as saying anyone bringing the border up was using scare tactics

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

I mean we voted to leave all that, not for one part of the country to remain in, we were told by the reigning party that this wasn't an issue and Teresa Villiers even went as far as saying anyone bringing the border up was using scare tactics

It’s not so simple as that. The UK voted by majority to leave the EU. The NI majority voted to remain in the EU.

Both sides of the Brexit debate used scare tactics. The fact us, though, that the Irish question needed to be resolved if there was to be a deal with the EU. I would have preferred to simply drop out of the EU and move forward from there. I did not like the tail (Varuka, the Teashop) wagging the dog (UK). Remember then they wanted to punish us. 3 years later and everyone’s being reasonable - let’s hope the DUP get reasonable too.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

It’s not so simple as that. The UK voted by majority to leave the EU. The NI majority voted to remain in the EU.

The Scotland majority voted to remain in the EU but this does not seem to fit your narrative?

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by ianch99

The Scotland majority voted to remain in the EU but this does not seem to fit your narrative?

what are you on about? My remarks centre on the NI situation only and address Daddy’s view.

Plus - what is my narrative in you view?

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

what are you on about? My remarks centre on the NI situation only and address Daddy’s view.

Plus - what is my narrative in you view?

It's not difficult: you said NI is in a privileged position and then reinforced this by reminding us that "The NI majority voted to remain in the EU".

I am reminding you that Scotland also voted to remain in the EU but is as unprivileged as the rest of us. Sort of Brexity cake and eat it time

The UK is a unitary state, whose citizens voted on the future relationship between that state and a supranational institution called the EU. Regardless of the UK’s internal construction or history, there was no separate vote in NI or Scotland or anywhere else.

These present separate negotiations have been necessary entirely because of the existence of a separate international treaty, the Belfast Agreement, which mandates an invisible international land border between the UK and the Republic of Ireland. It was drafted without considering the possibility that the UK and Ireland might find themselves on opposite sides of an EU external border, which complicated things somewhat.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by ianch99

It's not difficult: you said NI is in a privileged position and then reinforced this by reminding us that "The NI majority voted to remain in the EU".

I am reminding you that Scotland also voted to remain in the EU but is as unprivileged as the rest of us. Sort of Brexity cake and eat it time

What don’t you understand about the difference between NI and Scotland in this context? It’s called the Belfast Agreement which is NI’s free ticket to the privilege of operating in the EU market.

Oh, the irony…

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-64808694

Brexit: Rishi Sunak oversold NI deal, says Lord Frost

The UK's former top Brexit negotiator has said the new deal with the EU will make the Northern Ireland Protocol easier to operate but does not change its fundamentals.

The deal - known as the Windsor Framework - was unveiled on Monday.

Writing in the Daily Telegraph, Lord Frost said the government had been "overclaiming" some parts of the deal.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

What don’t you understand about the difference between NI and Scotland in this context? It’s called the Belfast Agreement which is NI’s free ticket to the privilege of operating in the EU market.

Just pointing out the hypocrisy of citing that the NI majority voted to remain in the EU. The UK as a whole left the EU so what the NI majority wanted was ignored, as was the Scottish majority.

So let's drop the "NI majority voted to remain" BS, NI has access to the EU SM because a) it underwrites the Belfast Agreement and b) it is the most advantageous economic model available, as Sunak highlighted.

TL;DR EU SM economic alignment is the best economic model - it's official

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

It’s not so simple as that.

It is so simple as that because we were told that's how simple it would be, repeatedly