Britain outside the EU

[Sephiroth]

Well, that's brought out a few people with blocked noses, some pretending not to understand the fundamentals of British culture.


---------- Post added at 16:25 ---------- Previous post was at 16:01 ----------

Originally Posted by ianch99

I don't think I'm "thick" as you put it. The question I ask is the essential one here as it sets the context from which the complainant (you) is defining their world view.

You are equating "not adopting British culture" as just doing anything you object to. These people, from a myriad of countries, have their own cultural identities, literature, democracy, sense of humour, sense of history and tolerance, all of which are perfectly possible to be melded into ours. I think what you mean by "British culture" is some artificial Anglo-Saxon construct where "whiteness", being Christian, etc. is the (false) measure of conformity.

Remember that we invaded the lands where the majority of the people you object to come from, we subjugated them, stole their wealth and imposed our "British culture" on them. It is poetic karma that the position is now reversed.

Another thing to remember is the "British culture ... that has been built up over the centuries" is a direct result of waves of immigration, each, in turn, imposing its own cultural identity on the resident population.

You are equating "not adopting British culture" as just doing anything you object to. These people, from a myriad of countries, have their own cultural identities, literature, democracy, sense of humour, sense of history and tolerance, all of which are perfectly possible to be melded into ours. I think what you mean by "British culture" is some artificial Anglo-Saxon construct where "whiteness", being Christian, etc. is the (false) measure of conformity.

Wrong. Chinese: Yes. Indian: Yes. EU: Yes. Oz/NZ/Canada: Yes. And thereafter it becomes murky.

On your "whiteness" point, you prove how far your head is poked inmto the sand. Diversity officers and policies ensure that it's not good nes to be white these days - after hundreds of years of Britain and the evolution of British culture.


Remember that we invaded the lands where the majority of the people you object to come from, we subjugated them, stole their wealth and imposed our "British culture" on them. It is poetic karma that the position is now reversed.


More tripe. Every culture has done that - pillaging, stealing, enslaving etc. Why is it just Britain that is the villain? We left those countries with infrastructure, administration and justice systems. Now they are. in many cases, corrupt, intolerant, crime ridden - which is nothing to do with us and entirely down to their own cultures.

Another thing to remember is the "British culture ... that has been built up over the centuries" is a direct result of waves of immigration, each, in turn, imposing its own cultural identity on the resident population.


British culture has indeed been influenced to a degree by immigration. Let's go through it: Jews escaping from pogroms - a benign influence but not largely adopted in cultural terms at large. Indians - most of them are here because when Africa turfed them out and India wouldn't accept them, we opened our doors and they have made their successful mark here.. But they haven't influenced British culture. Ditto the Chinese who are a very distinct culture that does not interact with British culture. Somalis - these immigrants bring knife culture to the UK and mix that with with their religion. Pakistanis also have no business being here and, to the best of my knowledge, the no-go areas or the areas they dominate are completely incongruent with British culture. Albanians - they have no business being here and there's no doubt about what they get up to.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...rothers-league

As far back as 1902, Cosmo Lang, bishop of Stepney, east London, accused immigrants of “swamping whole areas once populated by English people”.

The Eastern Post and City Chronicle enthusiastically reported BBL activities and demanded that the government end this “foreign flood which has submerged our native population of East London”.

So who were these feared immigrants? Mainly pauperised east European Jews fleeing economic discrimination, religious persecution and, from 1881, pogroms enacted by the mob but encouraged by the tsarist Russian authorities.

Another wrote: “It made my blood boil” to see “swarthy, dirty foreigners attempting to put down our right to free speech.” A “Disgusted East Londoner” complained that many houses locally were “occupied by foreigners who, with their children, speak nothing but Yiddish”. He anticipated a time “when we English people dare not hold a meeting of our own”.

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose…

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Hugh

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...rothers-league









Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose…

Far from it. Compatible culture, mate.

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Far from it. Compatible culture, mate.

The information posted shows that, at the time, this was not seen to be the case…

The rhetoric at the time almost exactly mirrors what you are posting in this thread…

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Hugh

The information posted shows that, at the time, this was not seen to be the case…

The rhetoric at the time almost exactly mirrors what you are posting in this thread…

... and then there's the out-turn. Nothing of those times actually involved a culture that would have imperilled British Culture. It was the same with the East African Indians.

[1andrew1]

Meanwhile back to the topic of Britain outside the EU. This is an interesting development.

Revealed: secret cross-party summit held to confront failings of Brexit

An extraordinary cross-party summit bringing together leading leavers and remainers – including Michael Gove and senior members of Keir Starmer’s shadow cabinet – has been held in high secrecy to address the failings of Brexit and how to remedy them in the national interest, the Observer can reveal.

The two-day gathering of some of the country’s most senior Labour and Tory politicians from both sides of the Brexit debate, together with diplomats, defence experts and the heads of some of the biggest businesses and banks, was held at the historic Ditchley Park retreat in Oxfordshire on Thursday afternoon and evening, and on Friday.

The highly unusual cross-party nature of the gathering of Brexit opponents – and the seniority of those who agreed to attend – reflects a growing acceptance among politicians in the two main parties, as well as business leaders and civil servants, that Brexit in its current form is damaging the UK economy and reducing its strategic influence in the world.

Concern is growing at the top of the Labour party that it poses a real threat to the success of any future Labour government unless problems such as increased trade friction can be addressed.

The Office for Budget Responsibility has predicted that, over the 15 years from 2016, Brexit will reduce the UK’s GDP per capita by 4%.

In effect calling for a cross-party consensus on Brexit, the summit papers referred to the need to move on from “the current mix of antagonism and nostalgia to excitement about what the future could bring for the UK and for Europe”. They also said that finding solutions was all the more urgent because of “global unrest, supply chain fragility and inflation”.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...droidApp_Other

[Sephiroth]

If true, good. Make Brexit work.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

If true, good. Make Brexit work.

It's not going to work, aside from some tidying up around the peripheries this is it, suck it up, it's what we voted for

[1andrew1]

More intrigue!

Sunak was unaware of Gove attendance at Brexit discussion, No 10 says

Spokesperson stops short of criticising minister, while Tory source dismisses David Frost ‘plot’ claim as ‘pathetic’

Rishi Sunak was unaware of Michael Gove’s attendance at a private meeting of prominent former leave and remain campaigners to discuss Brexit, No 10 has said.

Sunak’s spokesperson suggested the prime minister had first become aware of Gove’s attendance at the two-day summit when he read about it in the Observer.

Government sources said there was some irritation that there was no warning about Gove’s attendance, because of the delicate party management involved during talks on the Northern Irish protocol. One said there were “eyebrows raised” in No 10, but said it was unlikely Sunak would raise it personally with the cabinet minister.

One senior Conservative party source who attended the summit dismissed Frost’s portrayal of the conference as a “secret plot” to “unravel” Brexit as “rather pathetic”.

“It is an overreach and a misunderstanding of what the conference was about, which was about the future of UK and EU relations, which is a perfectly sensible subject to discuss,” the attender said.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...t-unravel-deal

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

More intrigue!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...t-unravel-deal

Rats in a sack ..

From the Telegraph

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https://www....ock-comes-end/

A new Brexit deal is expected to be announced in the next fortnight after the UK watered down its hardline resistance to European judges ruling on issues in Northern Ireland.

Sources close to the talks have indicated to The Telegraph that an agreement to end the row over the Northern Ireland Protocol is set to be revealed within two weeks.

Rishi Sunak, the Prime Minister, is due to speak to some European leaders later this week, with next week initially pencilled in by UK negotiators as the date for announcement.

The broad shape of the deal has now become clear, according to two sources from the European Union and two in the UK, with final sign-off still to come from Number 10.

Under the plan, goods travelling from the mainland UK destined only for Northern Ireland will not face physical customs checks thanks to a new system of “red” and “green” lanes.

One of the most sensitive areas of agreement, about the exact role of the European Court of Justice (ECJ) in Northern Ireland, is likely to be presented differently by the EU and UK.

Sources in Brussels believe the agreement will show that the ECJ will be the ultimate arbiter of disputes about EU law that emerge from Northern Ireland.

UK sources close to the deal are insisting that the vast majority of legal clashes about trade in Northern Ireland will not involve the ECJ, playing up the role of the province's own judges.

But the UK Government is no longer insisting that the ECJ must not be the ultimate arbiter on EU law issues in Northern Ireland. That had been the UK position under Liz Truss and for much of Boris Johnson's premiership.

New language stressing that the ECJ will only be used as a court of last resort is expected in a joint EU-UK statement when the deal is announced, according to multiple UK and EU sources.

There is also a belief among UK government figures familiar with negotiations that the deal would mean Downing Street effectively drops the Northern Ireland Protocol Bill, which is still going through Parliament

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Hugh

From the Telegraph

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https://www....ock-comes-end/

That's good news.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

That's good news.

Yes. That's on the basis that we are where we are. We should have simply dropped out of the EU - but we would have had no competent government to develop from there. Damn.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Yes. That's on the basis that we are where we are. We should have simply dropped out of the EU - but we would have had no competent government to develop from there. Damn.

Unlike the competent governments we have subsequently had.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-64693922

Boris Johnson has urged Rishi Sunak not to abandon legislation he introduced on how Northern Ireland's post-Brexit trade will work in the long-term.

The Northern Ireland Protocol Bill was set in motion when Mr Johnson was PM, but Mr Sunak has been meeting EU leaders to agree a new deal.

Since 2021, certain trade checks cover some goods crossing the Irish Sea.

A source close to Mr Johnson said the former PM thought it would be a "great mistake" to move away from his plan.

So Johnson doesn’t want the current PM to change something (the NI Protocol Bill) that Johnson proposed, which was proposed by Johnson to change something that Johnson had originally proposed and got through Parliament (the NI Protocol as part of the Withdrawal Agreement).