Britain outside the EU

[Julian]

Whataboutery overload!!!!!!!!!

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

You're splitting hairs. The "corrupt EU" is all the headlines right now and the Commission President has also gone public on this.

Actually, as an organisation, the EU is indeed corrupt. Democratically corrupt. It is sneakily engineering the removal of sovereignty from the constituent nations to the centre; it wants the European Union Parliament to trump national parliaments. And they are sneakily doing this bit by bit.

When/if that happens, the political groups with their collective interests will outvote minorities. The certainly would have happened to the Uk if federalisation were to occur should we have remined in the EU.

Sovereignty is everything; all it then needs is a competent government which we don't have.

It is a serious point. You focus on the EU yet accept, tolerate and endorse the corruption in the very Party you belong to. I think this says it all.

The EU is corrupt as any large Governmental body is, no more. You seem happy to accept an unelected Chamber as part of our Legislature, stuffed with political cronies and then say, with the same breath, that the EU is "corrupt and undemocratic".

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Ms NTL

Clearly, EU is useless. The vice president of EU only got 600,000 Euros cash bribe from the Qataris. Our King got 3,000,000 cash in a suitcase from the Qataris.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...in-qatari-cash

Compare returns and efficiency! Britain is on the way up!

[Ms NTL]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

My followers will know that I am not a fan of Charlie Farley.
Horrible mountebank and I'm surprised that this particular bag of cash has not been further investigated by the press.

My post was ironic - just a joke. Please ignore it.

Arabs do business in a different way than us. The oil states have no tax and they have Sharia law.

You lot will shred me into pieces as I know very little about either.

Arab oil states pay cash or Western Union with a pin. That's their way of doing things.

Now I sound like the VP of EU.

Santander payed 108m fine for money laundering last week. Details NONE. But I understand how they have done it. Our way....

And yes, the oil states can disperse cash via their embassies freely, that's their way, and under the sharia law . No interest is charged.

Who is corrupt? .......and what is really the law?

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by ianch99

It is a serious point. You focus on the EU yet accept, tolerate and endorse the corruption in the very Party you belong to. I think this says it all.

The EU is corrupt as any large Governmental body is, no more. You seem happy to accept an unelected Chamber as part of our Legislature, stuffed with political cronies and then say, with the same breath, that the EU is "corrupt and undemocratic".

You focus on the EU yet accept, tolerate and endorse the corruption in the very Party you belong to. I think this says it all.

Quite the opposite. In my posts, I have explicitly denounced any corruption in the UK. In fact, you've been quite insulting towards me.

The EU is corrupt as any large Governmental body is, no more.

What - your darling EU corrupt?

You seem happy to accept an unelected Chamber as part of our Legislature, stuffed with political cronies and then say, with the same breath, that the EU is "corrupt and undemocratic".

Did I say or hint any of that? Btw, an elected upper chamber needs very careful thought so as not to cripple government legislation. The public would play games art election time, I suspect.



---------- Post added at 09:16 ---------- Previous post was at 09:14 ----------

Originally Posted by Ms NTL

My post was ironic - just a joke. Please ignore it.

Arabs do business in a different way than us. The oil states have no tax and they have Sharia law.

You lot will shred me into pieces as I know very little about either.

Arab oil states pay cash or Western Union with a pin. That's their way of doing things.

Now I sound like the VP of EU.

Santander payed 108m fine for money laundering last week. Details NONE. But I understand how they have done it. Our way....

And yes, the oil states can disperse cash via their embassies freely, that's their way, and under the sharia law . No interest is charged.

Who is corrupt? .......and what is really the law?

Well - what to say?

Qatar et al expect us to behave in accordance with their laws when we're there. Surely we should expect reciprocity.

But brown envelopes, so to speak, stuffed with cash so as to steer EU policy towards Qatar or wherever is wrong by any standards, and Qatar knows this.

[papa smurf]

ooh heck
Bribes, what bribes? £1.3 MILLION in cash found stashed in EU politicians' houses is pictured as Greek Euro parliament vice president Eva Kaili denies taking money from Qatar

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ized-cash.html

[ianch99]

https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/statu...50076555386886

Which system is less corrupt?

EU Politician Eva Kaili found guilty of paid lobbying (bribery).
625 (1 against) MEPs vote to fire her.

UK MP Owen Paterson found guilty of paid lobbying (bribery).
243 (6 against) Tories voted to change the roles [sic] to protect him.

Says it all ... corruption in plain sight.

[daveeb]

Originally Posted by ianch99

https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/statu...50076555386886



Says it all ... corruption in plain sight.

Indeed, let's sit back and wait for the whataboutery village vigilantes waving their pitchforks, the last defiant defence of the indefensible.

[Kursk]

We three kings of Orient are
Bearing gifts we come from Qatar
In the eu we’ve found
Corruption abounds
It’s a penalty on reviewing the VAR

And the winner is...Brexit

[Julian]

Originally Posted by daveeb

Indeed, let's sit back and wait for the whataboutery village vigilantes waving their pitchforks, the last defiant defence of the indefensible.

Calling out whataboutery is in no way defending the indefensible. If you understood the term you might realise that.

There are plenty of threads on this forum where people have called out whataboutery when starmer or labour are mentioned after something about the tories. I saw no village vigilante/pitchfork comment there.

For the record I have never defended anything the tories have done, I just have an aversion to blatant hypocrisy.

[daveeb]

Originally Posted by Julian

Calling out whataboutery is in no way defending the indefensible. If you understood the term you might realise that.

There are plenty of threads on this forum where people have called out whataboutery when starmer or labour are mentioned after something about the tories. I saw no village vigilante/pitchfork comment there.

For the record I have never defended anything the tories have done, I just have an aversion to blatant hypocrisy.

Well it wasn't directed at you in particular although you do seem quite fond of mentioning it, but you haven't commented on the contrast in behaviour that ianch99 noted merely defended the criticism of whataboutery. Which makes my point nicely.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Julian

Calling out whataboutery is in no way defending the indefensible. If you understood the term you might realise that.

There are plenty of threads on this forum where people have called out whataboutery when starmer or labour are mentioned after something about the tories. I saw no village vigilante/pitchfork comment there.

For the record I have never defended anything the tories have done, I just have an aversion to blatant hypocrisy.

More or less exactamundo. As regards the Tories, my party has massively screwed up over the last 6 years and will pay the price at the GE.

But my response here is to address "whataboutery". It's an awful term that I see as the last bastion for those who have nothing of value to contribute on a specific topic or sub-topic. Talking of which, Ian doesn't seem to like anything that discredits the EU. So he has to discredit the already discredited Tories and does nothing to make the EU any better.

Was it Greeks and Italians involved in the current EU scandal? Generally from the May-22 report:

https://www.eurojust.europa.eu/news/...er-cases-rises

The top five Member States involved in corruption cases registered at Eurojust are Greece, Germany, Romania, Italy and Spain. Third countries also play a key role in Eurojust's corruption casework. Between 2016 and 2021, 42 third countries were involved in corruption cases.

From your last link

This increase reflects the EU's priority to crack down on corruption and Eurojust's growing importance in helping Member States tackle this specific type of cross-border crime.

Very few organisations are totally free from corruption (be they Governmental or Business), it’s how they try to deal with it that counts.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Hugh

From your last link



Very few organisations are totally free from corruption (be they Governmental or Business), it’s how they try to deal with it that counts.

That's like Rishi saying he'll cut down the illegal migration numbers.

They've got to say all that.

[Sephiroth]

The UK really is broken at the moment. Nothing to do with Brexit - all to do with useless government.

Btw, if the rail fares increase by something close to inflation (government is holding back on that) then the unions could ask for that amount at least. So isn't this the moment for the Guvmin to announce the fares increase (takes effect March 2023).