Updated: Boris resigns as party leader

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Have you forgotten about Covid and Ukraine already? Yours are pretty crass examples. Neither Covid nor the war were foreseen, and they had to be paid for.

Ukraine is neither here nor there in terms of what matters in the UK. It's a totally detached matter for which Boris should not trade achievement against his transgressions.

Boris can claim two wins for the Government: (1) Getting Brexit done; (2) Seeing us through the COVID crisis.

Nothing else. Instead he has:

1. Tried to change the rules so that his mate Owen Paterson could survive;

2. Changed the Ministerial Code so that honesty/integrity are not part thereof;

3. Increased taxes, nothwithstanding the manifesto;

4. Falsely claimed that he is solving the ocial care crisis;

5. Failed to ensure that people can see their GP;

6. Done nothing meaningful to rectify the lost education for children;

7. Enabled massive skilled immigration rather than putting proper money into education here;

8. Introduced an unachievable Net Zero policy that is sending people into panic as to what do do about their cars;

9. Has not yet implemented any energy self-sufficiency measures such as additional nuclear, fracking and reversion to coal so that the lights stay on;

10. Nearly worst of all, is paying farmers not to produce food (so we have to import it);

11. Worst of all, he remains a liar who has learnt nothing from the shambles he has cause and never will.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

It’s delayed, not trashed, for the reasons above.

Not sure how those two issues impact the end of the housebuilding targets to take but one example. Money's been wasted looking at pipe dreams like the bridge to NI when we needed more power stations and gas storage.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

<SNIP>

It’s delayed, not trashed, for the reasons above.

No, he's trashed the manifesto for the reasons I've set out in the post above.

I forgot to add:

12. Stiffed the pensioners on the triple lock;

13. Appointed a chancellor who has weak loyalty ties to this country, doesn't even know how to pay for petrol (for a car he filled that wasn't his).

Boris is a terrible person.

You going to the Wokingham AGM later this month?

[Mr K]

Wake up and smell the coffee OB, even the Torygraph are briefing against , 'Big Dog', have a gander. He's promised everything and delivered nothing except debt, a poorer nation, and persistent lies.

[Dave42]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

No, he's trashed the manifesto for the reasons I've set out in the post above.

I forgot to add:

12. Stiffed the pensioners on the triple lock;

13. Appointed a chancellor who has weak loyalty ties to this country, doesn't even know how to pay for petrol (for a car he filled that wasn't his).

Boris is a terrible person.

You going to the Wokingham AGM later this month?

and you forgotten exports tanking or did you forget that on purpose because it because of brexit

---------- Post added at 00:15 ---------- Previous post was at 00:07 ----------

Originally Posted by Mr K

Wake up and smell the coffee OB, even the Torygraph are briefing against , 'Big Dog', have a gander. He's promised everything and delivered nothing except debt, a poorer nation, and persistent lies.

miracles never happen mr k OB will never ever say tories did anything wrong

Originally Posted by Dave42

miracles never happen mr k OB will never ever say tories did anything wrong

Not really any different to others on here who will never say they did anything right.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Ukraine is neither here nor there in terms of what matters in the UK. It's a totally detached matter for which Boris should not trade achievement against his transgressions.

Boris can claim two wins for the Government: (1) Getting Brexit done; (2) Seeing us through the COVID crisis.

Nothing else. Instead he has:


1. Tried to change the rules so that his mate Owen Paterson could survive;

2. Changed the Ministerial Code so that honesty/integrity are not part thereof;

3. Increased taxes, nothwithstanding the manifesto;

4. Falsely claimed that he is solving the ocial care crisis;

5. Failed to ensure that people can see their GP;

6. Done nothing meaningful to rectify the lost education for children;

7. Enabled massive skilled immigration rather than putting proper money into education here;

8. Introduced an unachievable Net Zero policy that is sending people into panic as to what do do about their cars;

9. Has not yet implemented any energy self-sufficiency measures such as additional nuclear, fracking and reversion to coal so that the lights stay on;

10. Nearly worst of all, is paying farmers not to produce food (so we have to import it);

11. Worst of all, he remains a liar who has learnt nothing from the shambles he has cause and never will.

Wow, Seph, so you don't acknowledge the impact of the Russian attack on Ukraine as having any part of this! What about the impact on fuel prices, which has put up the price of food and other goods? Boris has had to deal with a whole series of huge, unforeseen problems and you just dismiss them out of hand!

1. Tried to change the rules so that his mate Owen Paterson could survive;


I agree that was a misjudgement.

2. Changed the Ministerial Code so that honesty/integrity are not part thereof;

You will, of course, be aware that this was a recommendation of the Committee on Standards and Public Life,,,

3. Increased taxes, nothwithstanding the manifesto;

The reliefs and other impacts of Covid have to be paid for. How else will the debt be repaid?

4. Falsely claimed that he is solving the ocial care crisis;
It is not a false claim. He has identified the money needed, which will be used initially to bring down waiting lists in the NHS and will then be moved to tackle the care crisis. Again, the impact of Covid has delayed the increased attention to the care service - it is not off the agenda as you intimate.

5. Failed to ensure that people can see their GP;

No, he hasn't. The NHS has been told to get on with that. I don't know about your surgery, but we have already received letters about this, and extended opening times.


6. Done nothing meaningful to rectify the lost education for children;

Boris has been in the front seat on this, ensuring that schools remained open and he has provided a £700 million plan to help people in England to catch up with lost learning time.

8. Introduced an unachievable Net Zero policy that is sending people into panic as to what do do about their cars;

Isn't that what we are being told over and over again by the scientists we have to do?

9. Has not yet implemented any energy self-sufficiency measures such as additional nuclear, fracking and reversion to coal so that the lights stay on;

The lights will stay on, Seph. We are in a better position than other EU countries

10. Nearly worst of all, is paying farmers not to produce food (so we have to import it);

The reason there has not been more crop growing relates to the lack of fertiliser, low or no fuel supplies for tractors, closure of ports and military activity.

11. Worst of all, he remains a liar who has learnt nothing from the shambles he has cause and never will.

I think you've fallen into the hands of the Opposition, Seph!

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Ukraine is neither here nor there in terms of what matters in the UK. It's a totally detached matter for which Boris should not trade achievement against his transgressions.

Boris can claim two wins for the Government: (1) Getting Brexit done; (2) Seeing us through the COVID crisis.

Nothing else. Instead he has:

1. Tried to change the rules so that his mate Owen Paterson could survive;

2. Changed the Ministerial Code so that honesty/integrity are not part thereof;

3. Increased taxes, nothwithstanding the manifesto;

4. Falsely claimed that he is solving the ocial care crisis;

5. Failed to ensure that people can see their GP;

6. Done nothing meaningful to rectify the lost education for children;

7. Enabled massive skilled immigration rather than putting proper money into education here;

8. Introduced an unachievable Net Zero policy that is sending people into panic as to what do do about their cars;

9. Has not yet implemented any energy self-sufficiency measures such as additional nuclear, fracking and reversion to coal so that the lights stay on;

10. Nearly worst of all, is paying farmers not to produce food (so we have to import it);

11. Worst of all, he remains a liar who has learnt nothing from the shambles he has cause and never will.

Yes, but the above minor aberrations are easily outweighed by the world-leading enquiry into the use of Imperial measures.

You should also add:
- Lied over patients being discharged to care homes safely and tried to pass the blame onto the NHS.
- Set up a VIP lane for PPE which wasted £bns.
- Lied about no customs border in the Irish Sea.
- Current airport fiasco.

Boris is a proven liar which the electorate sort of expect from any political party.
What's worse is he lied to Parliament.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

[COLOR="Blue"]Ukraine is neither here nor there in terms of what matters in the UK. It's a totally detached matter for which Boris should not trade achievement against his transgressions.

Boris can claim two wins for the Government: (1) Getting Brexit done; (2) Seeing us through the COVID crisis.

Two pretty big things and the vanguard in regards to support for Ukraine

Nothing else. Instead he has:

I agree with all that, some of it is a bit harsh as his first two years have been pretty much taken up with the two items above, I'll judge him on his remaining term, if he serves it.


Just one exception

6. Done nothing meaningful to rectify the lost education for children;

well money is there for extra tuition for kids. My kids got 9 weeks of extra tuition at their school.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Maggy

Boris is a proven liar which the electorate sort of expect from any political party.
What's worse is he lied to Parliament.

All politicians lie, Maggy, including Starmer, who provided false information about his beer party.

As far as lying to Parliament is concerned, you know very well that he claims to have supplied information on the so-called ‘parties’ that he believed to be correct at the time. That will be tested by the Select Committee, so we shall see.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Maggy

Boris is a proven liar which the electorate sort of expect from any political party.
What's worse is he lied to Parliament.

Johnson is in the Premier League here whilst John Major, Tony Blair, Margaret Thatcher etc only make the Sunday League.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Johnson is in the Premier League here whilst John Major, Tony Blair, Margaret Thatcher etc only make the Sunday League.

And Sarmer has won the world cup with the invisible woman coming second.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

All politicians lie, Maggy, including Starmer, who provided false information about his beer party.

I’m unsure how you can lie about an event that demonstrably didn’t take place.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

snip....

2. Changed the Ministerial Code so that honesty/integrity are not part thereof;

You will, of course, be aware that this was a recommendation of the Committee on Standards and Public Life,,,

Snip...

No, it wasn't...

The Committee recommended, on the Ministerial Code

First, the code’s provisions on ethics and standards should be separated from those detailing the processes of cabinet governance. The Ministerial Code should be a code of conduct of ethical standards for ministers, akin to MPs’ and peers’ codes of conduct, based on the Seven Principles of Public Life.

Johnson ignored the recommendations that would provide balance and oversight to his and Ministers' roles - he chose not to grant the Independent Adviser full autonomy to initiate investigations into potential breaches of the ministerial code - the adviser will still need to be granted permission from the Prime Minister. There were four recommendations on the Ministerial Code and the Independent Adviser on Ministers' Interest, but he only choose the one that would lessen the impact of punishment for breaches, rather than the whole package which provided holistic oversight and governance...

The Committee believes that further reform is necessary to the Ministerial Code and the role of the Independent Adviser. First, the code’s provisions on ethics and standards should be separated from those detailing the processes of cabinet governance. The Ministerial Code should be a code of conduct of ethical standards for ministers, akin to MPs’ and peers’ codes of conduct, based on the Seven Principles of Public Life.

Second, though the code must be owned and issued by the Prime Minister, rather than Parliament, an obligation in primary legislation for the Prime Minister to publish the Ministerial Code would grant the code a more appropriate constitutional status. The Independent Adviser should be consulted in any process of revising and reissuing the code, as has occurred in the past.

Third, now that the code is explicitly subject to a system of graduated sanctions, it should detail the range of sanctions that the Prime Minister may issue in response to a breach. We recommend that those sanctions include apologies, fines, and asking for a minister’s resignation.

Fourth, the appointments process, powers, and remit of the Independent Adviser should be strengthened. The Adviser should be appointed through an enhanced version of the current process for significant public appointments, where there is a majority of independent panel members. The Adviser should be able to initiate their own investigations and have the authority to determine breaches of the code. The Adviser’s findings should also be published no more than eight weeks after a report has been submitted to the Prime Minister. Meaningful independence is the benchmark for any effective form of standards regulation and current arrangements for the Adviser still fall below this bar.

But you knew that, and were just repeating the Party line...

He also the ensured the Nolan Principles, which have formed the basis of the standards expected of those in public life for nearly 30 years, no longer featuring prominently in the Ministerial Code.

The Committee recommended that there needs to be greater independence in the regulation of the Ministerial Code, which lags behind similar arrangements for MPs, peers, and civil servants, but nothing happened to those recommendations...

The Independent Adviser should be able to initiate investigations into breaches of the Ministerial Code.

The Independent Adviser should have the authority to determine breaches of the Ministerial Code.

https://assets.publishing.service.go...Accessible.pdf