The energy crisis

Originally Posted by jfman

Between now and then they can pay the bills with entrepreneurial spirit

Two weeks will make no difference, and most bills are monthly anyway.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

Between now and then they can pay the bills with entrepreneurial spirit

I have to say OB I admire how passive you are being, considering every business was on the verge of collapsing if there was even a two or three week delay in easing Covid restrictions.

I think you forget that measures are already in place to take account of the last increase to the price cap currently in force, although I accept that this was for households rather than businesses.

The next increase is not due until October, and so it is not as urgent as you like to make out. In the next batch of measures, businesses we be given substantial help.

[GrimUpNorth]

Do businesses need to buy a Boris kettle too after his words of advice today?

https://youtu.be/to7Wf_gW-lA

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I think you forget that measures are already in place to take account of the last increase to the price cap currently in force, although I accept that this was for households rather than businesses.

The next increase is not due until October, and so it is not as urgent as you like to make out. In the next batch of measures, businesses we be given substantial help.

Who is going to pay for the help? Would the magic money tree be involved? Dizzy Lizzy has also got to pay for her bribed tax cuts for the Tory faithful. Should we just borrow again and let the woke millennials deal with it?

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I think you forget that measures are already in place to take account of the last increase to the price cap currently in force, although I accept that this was for households rather than businesses.

The next increase is not due until October, and so it is not as urgent as you like to make out. In the next batch of measures, businesses we be given substantial help.

That's a creative way to say there's no support for businesses, and there might not be either!

[Jaymoss]

Originally Posted by Mr K

Who is going to pay for the help? Would the magic money tree be involved? Dizzy Lizzy has also got to pay for her bribed tax cuts for the Tory faithful. Should we just borrow again and let the woke millennials deal with it?

Well someone has to pay for support otherwise people will die or be destitute or bankrupt. Ideally the producers would be shouting here take our money we have loads at the minute but that will not happen in the amounts needed

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Paul

Two weeks will make no difference, and most bills are monthly anyway.

Oh I expect it will make no difference, mainly because I expect the support (if any) to be wholly inadequate. Loans upon loans with no customers anyway they might as well shut.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by jfman

Oh I expect it will make no difference, mainly because I expect the support (if any) to be wholly inadequate. Loans upon loans with no customers anyway they might as well shut.

Indeed, there will be no real assistance other than “have some more debt”.

Originally Posted by jfman

Oh I expect it will make no difference, mainly because I expect the support (if any) to be wholly inadequate. Loans upon loans with no customers anyway they might as well shut.

You would consider anything the government provides "inadequate" simply because they are conservative.

Still, i'll bite anyway, tell us what you consider is 'adequate', and how its going to be paid for.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Paul

You would consider anything the government provides "inadequate" simply because they are conservative.

Still, i'll bite anyway, tell us what you consider is 'adequate', and how its going to be paid for.

Considering the exhaustive list of things Truss has ruled out it’s difficult to see how anything adequate is left over.

The obvious answer is it’s paid for the same way we pay for anything - more debt. No government of any colour for the last 40 years has meaningfully made any impact on the national debt, and none for the next 40 will tackle it either. The pretence that £2trn is sustainable but £2.5trn isn’t (figures vary over time) is just a myth to keep the proles in their place with their housekeeping economics.

FWIW I don’t think Starmer has any answers either.

Originally Posted by jfman

Considering the exhaustive list of things Truss has ruled out it’s difficult to see how anything adequate is left over.

That isnt what I asked though, my question was what do you consider adequate ?

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Paul

That isnt what I asked though, my question was what do you consider adequate ?

Intervention to make energy affordable for consumers and businesses. And yes, I recognise in the short term this does mean subsidies until we can increase and take control of our own production.

We’ve been hearing for months about how we need to suppress wages to prevent an inflation spiral. Nobody seems that bothered about the impact energy costs have in driving the same spiral - and consumer confidence down in the process.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by jfman

Intervention to make energy affordable for consumers and businesses. And yes, I recognise in the short term this does mean subsidies until we can increase and take control of our own production.

We’ve been hearing for months about how we need to suppress wages to prevent an inflation spiral. Nobody seems that bothered about the impact energy costs have in driving the same spiral - and consumer confidence down in the process.

I think, as Chris has attested to in previous posts is, that for various policy driven issues the price for energy in the U.K. is artificially high.

There are things we could do, if we really wanted to.

Originally Posted by Paul

That isnt what I asked though, my question was what do you consider adequate ?

The Government is going to have to underwrite the wholesale cost and pay it back over the decades to come. There isn't any realistic short-term alternative that I can see.

[OLD BOY]

A solution has been put forward by the energy industry itself that the unit cost of gas and electricity could remain as it is, with the deficiency covered by a loan which will be paid back when costs fall back below that level.

Yes, debt is involved, but consumers pay it back when the market starts getting back to normal.

Businesses are also to be helped through measures such as reducing business rates.