Britain outside the EU

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

That’s an interesting one. The Swiss model is so complex and, by the way, is an a-la-carte agreement between the two entities. The hardliners won’t want to see a penny paid into the EU nor the applicability of EU law to the treaties elements.

I can see economic merit in easing trade, but the price to be paid will horrify some people. It would need putting to a referendum.

I don't think that it would need a referendum, we're not Switzerland! Even Daniel Hanan said we would stay in the Single Market and the ideas being floated don't envisage that.

In fact, Farage says Switzerland's model was the inspiration for Brexit a couple of years ago.

Nigel Farage, head of the UK’s Brexit party, says Switzerland was an “inspiration” for the United Kingdom on leaving the European Union.

“Switzerland has managed to maintain its sovereignty and independence and reach bilateral agreements with the EU,” he said in an interviewExternal link with Swiss television RTS. “You managed to do it without being part of the EU, so did Norway.”

Farage was speaking at the European parliament as the UK prepares to leave the European Union on January 31. Farage, although his party did not win any seats in the last UK election, has been one of the key people behind the Brexit campaign.

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/politic...rage-/45499628

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I don't think that it would need a referendum, we're not Switzerland! Even Daniel Hanan said we would stay in the Single Market and the ideas being floated don't envisage that.

In fact, Farage says Switzerland's model was the inspiration for Brexit a couple of years ago.


https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/politic...rage-/45499628

Your answer doesn't discuss the complexity and the degree of acquiescence to the ECJ that goes with the Swiss model. Also "Free Movement" is part of the Swiss deal with the EU.

https://www.eeas.europa.eu/switzerla...rland_en?s=180

[richard-john56]

I wish Farage would go and live in Switzerland that would be inspiration enough,

If they're not going to try for closer regulatory ties with the EU then at least start delivering on proper trade deals that actually make a difference rather than these small gimmicks Truss got.

If you don't build something else in place of the EU then Brexit looks like a destructive project.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Damien

Brexit looks like a destructive project.

I can’t believe that after all this time that people still think of Brexit in terms of economics etc.

Brexit, to most of the so called thick racist northerners that got it over the line was an issue of being governed by those that were accountable.

Certain global issues have made the situation less good.

But anyone thinking rejoining the EU is an option are crazy, and any party with that option in a manifesto would not get out the starting gate.

Try to get there by stealth and you may get so far, but you’ll be found out.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Try to get there by stealth and you may get so far, but you’ll be found out.

I think we're in tin foil hat territory if we imagine that this is part of some long-term plan by Brexiters like Hunt and Sunak to rejoin the EU!

Most likely, they're trying to gauge public opinion and to see if the ERG's red lines have moved following the economic situation the UK is in.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Pierre

I can’t believe that after all this time that people still think of Brexit in terms of economics etc.

Brexit, to most of the so called thick racist northerners that got it over the line was an issue of being governed by those that were accountable.

Certain global issues have made the situation less good.

But anyone thinking rejoining the EU is an option are crazy, and any party with that option in a manifesto would not get out the starting gate.

Try to get there by stealth and you may get so far, but you’ll be found out.

Living in the north it wasn’t accountability that was the key selling point that was campaigned on, it was controlled immigration.

[1andrew1]

Tony Danker, the CBI director general, has joined the many Tory Brexiters who reacted with alarm to yesterday’s story in saying that the government should not be aiming for a Swiss-style deal. He told the Today programme this morning:

I’m a bit puzzled about the whole Swiss thing. It took them about 40 years to get to the Swiss arrangement. Currently, we’re not even implementing Boris’s deal. Let’s implement Boris’s Brexit deal, that still has some growth in it, by the way, that’s all come to a freeze, and let’s forget the discussion about Switzerland for now.

Asked if a Swiss-style Brexit deal would be a betrayal of Brexit, Danker replied:

"All I want to do is implement Boris’s deal. Currently we’re not implementing Boris’s deal. We’ve got we’ve got an impasse because of the Northern Ireland protocol. There’s lots of freezing of our science relationships, of our recognition of our qualifications, of easier travel across Europe. Those things will give us some growth. But it needs the Europeans and the British government to get round the table and solve the protocol.

There’s a landing zone there. If we fulfil the agreement on the protocol, we’ll start to open up some of those other other economic benefits from Boris’s trade deal."

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...08958e0f819abe

[Sephiroth]

If only it were that easy to fix the Northern Ireland thing. The DUP is the problem as we all know - and they opposed the Good Friday Agreement at the time. And they still sort of hate the Nats.

There's no hard line the Guvmin can take with the DUP for fear of loyalist terrorism. There's no incentive for the Guvmin to give ground to the EU because it plays into the Nats' hands and the UK will eventually lose NI - sooner rather than later.

So, the Guvmin is up shit creek. As a bystander, the choice I have is to (a) support interpretation of the NI protocol that NI is part of the UK Customs regime and that we should be free to supply supermarkets without more than one sheet of customs paper; (b) to let the ECJ run its writ in NI as regards Single Market whilst agreeing with the EU to their light touch customs proposals.

I now favour (b) just to get things done. Whether or not Sunak has the cahunas to get on with that I can't judge at this stage - he might have. Something must give because the DUP are *******s and need to be sidelined.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

If only it were that easy to fix the Northern Ireland thing. The DUP is the problem as we all know - and they opposed the Good Friday Agreement at the time. And they still sort of hate the Nats.

There's no hard line the Guvmin can take with the DUP for fear of loyalist terrorism. There's no incentive for the Guvmin to give ground to the EU because it plays into the Nats' hands and the UK will eventually lose NI - sooner rather than later.

So, the Guvmin is up shit creek. As a bystander, the choice I have is to (a) support interpretation of the NI protocol that NI is part of the UK Customs regime and that we should be free to supply supermarkets without more than one sheet of customs paper; (b) to let the ECJ run its writ in NI as regards Single Market whilst agreeing with the EU to their light touch customs proposals.

I now favour (b) just to get things done. Whether or not Sunak has the cahunas to get on with that I can't judge at this stage - he might have. Something must give because the DUP are *******s and need to be sidelined.

Surely the government don't need the DUP now they have a 70+ seat majority?

Meanwhile, business (and government tax revenues) continue to suffer from Brexit. The boss of Britain's largest airports group, Charlie Cornish, spells it out.

Speaking at the Airlines 2022 conference in London, Cornish said: “There’s no doubt that Brexit has damaged the UK economy, 99% of leading economists would tell you that. You just have to look at the rate of growth now, and that’s significant.”

He added: “If that carries on, the UK’s ability to be competitive will get eroded every single year. We do need the UK government to look at how to actually get a sensible economic growth plan back, with aviation at the centre of that.”

Cornish said that while other factors such as Covid had structurally altered the labour force, the problems were exacerbated by fewer Europeans coming back into the UK. “That does damage the UK aviation sector’s ability to recruit workforce at scale and at pace,” he said. “Pre-Brexit, that problem was never there.”

He added: “Aviation is wholly linked to GDP. We have to have an open conversation: how are we going to solve the Brexit-related disruption? If you look at the economic recovery in the EU, they’re much further ahead of the UK. Nobody’s going to be able to say that’s not due to Brexit.”

Willie Walsh, the head of global airlines body Iata and former boss of the British Airways owner IAG, said there were clear indicators that UK aviation was recovering more slowly than Europe’s.

“It’s damaged the UK, from everything I’ve seen,” he said. “ I haven’t heard any politician articulate any benefit, and don’t see any Brexit benefit for aviation. If you can’t acknowledge that there’s a negative, they’re not going to be able to fix it.”

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...15ee9ba644b667

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Surely the government don't need the DUP now they have a 70+ seat majority?

<SNIP>

As I said, the loyalist terrorists might organise themselves. The Guvmin have better intelligence on this than you or I.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

As I said, the loyalist terrorists might organise themselves. The Guvmin have better intelligence on this than you or I.

Hopefully, HMG will not give into blackmail too easily.

Meanwhile, back in the Commons, more comedy gold!

Top Tory boasts Brexit is delivering 'enormous' benefits - then can't name a single one

Andrew Griffith came unstuck at the climax of a Commons speech defending the Autumn Statement, after Chancellor Jeremy Hunt admitted there were “trade barriers” with the EU.

The Treasury minister boasted: "Brexit can deliver and is already delivering enormous benefits and opportunities."

SNP MP Peter Grant asked: “Could the minister just tell my constituents one thing that is a definite benefit, even to 20% of the people in my constituency, from Brexit?

“Something they would notice the difference with?"

Mr Griffith hastily replied: “Well, I am afraid we have not enough time left to share all of the benefits that we are delivering for his constituents."

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...ering-28552808

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Pierre

I can’t believe that after all this time that people still think of Brexit in terms of economics etc.

Brexit, to most of the so called thick racist northerners that got it over the line was an issue of being governed by those that were accountable.

Certain global issues have made the situation less good.

But anyone thinking rejoining the EU is an option are crazy, and any party with that option in a manifesto would not get out the starting gate.

Try to get there by stealth and you may get so far, but you’ll be found out.

You are out of touch with reality I'm afraid. The latest polling on Brexit has Britons thinking that it was the wrong decision to vote to leave the European Union by 56% to 32%. This will gap increase as the "sunlit uplands" a.k.a lies, fail to materialise. The other factor is that each year, the numbers of Leave voters drops by around 1/4 million and since Gen-Z is 80-90% Remain, the future is writ large. The lack of any tangible benefits just seals the deal.

As the drop in GDP caused by this decision starts to impact people's daily lives, this trend will continue. I suspect that in 5 or 10 years time, the UK will start the re-joining process, driven by basic economic necessity.

[Kursk]

Originally Posted by ianch99

You are out of touch with reality I'm afraid. The latest polling on Brexit has Britons thinking that it was the wrong decision to vote to leave the European Union by 56% to 32%. This will gap increase as the "sunlit uplands" a.k.a lies, fail to materialise. The other factor is that each year, the numbers of Leave voters drops by around 1/4 million and since Gen-Z is 80-90% Remain, the future is writ large. The lack of any tangible benefits just seals the deal.

As the drop in GDP caused by this decision starts to impact people's daily lives, this trend will continue. I suspect that in 5 or 10 years time, the UK will start the re-joining process, driven by basic economic necessity.

Please Lord, make it stop

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Kursk

Please Lord, make it stop

Which Deity in particular? However, you can't escape the truth ...