Trump’s Troubles

[Russ]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Well, it should be based on the evidence, nothing else. Fat chance of that.

He’d just better hope for a jury packed with right wing rebublicans.

Why? Right wingers are rightly abandoning him too

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Russ

Why? Right wingers are rightly abandoning him too

Indeed as we have the Republicans against Trump groups which are substantial in their numbers.

[Pierre]

Well at this early stage he’s probably still odd on to get the nomination, barring being incarcerated of course.

The Democrat response is the most interesting to me.

I can’t see them putting up Biden against Trump, or DeSantis, it would be a car crash.

How do the democrats exit Biden, and get in a replacement (not Harris) before the election?

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Well at this early stage he’s probably still odd on to get the nomination, barring being incarcerated of course.

The Democrat response is the most interesting to me.

I can’t see them putting up Biden against Trump, or DeSantis, it would be a car crash.

How do the democrats exit Biden, and get in a replacement (not Harris) before the election?

Biden's beaten Trump before. The economy's improved over the last few years so no reason to think he should lose. Both he and Trump are too old so younger candidates on each side would be preferable. But the US seems to think otherwise.

---------- Post added at 15:15 ---------- Previous post was at 15:11 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

Jury, and for serious crimes, unanimous verdicts.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/...p-17849841.php

I think that jury aspect is important. You just need to sew doubt in one jury member's mind or convince them that you're on trial for them and you can walk away free.

[Itshim]

Originally Posted by Itshim

Just saying from the end of year one of his term , we had the highest profit since our records began , and that is the late 18th century. Even more than our earlier record which was post ww2 to pre Castro!

Sorry should read early 19th (1802)

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Biden's beaten Trump before.

Biden is so cognitively impaired, to put him up against either Trump or DeSantis in a series of debates would be electoral suicide.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Biden is so cognitively impaired, to put him up against either Trump or DeSantis in a series of debates would be electoral suicide.

So don't put him in the debates.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

So don't put him in the debates.

Then he gets torn down for not appearing in the debates. The debates are much more part of the US electoral process, only recently copied (poorly) by us.

DeSantis looks finished. Went all in on 'woke' issues and it's not worked. Be quite a thing for him to turn it around.

[1andrew1]

Those saying DeSantis or Biden won't win may be interested in this article about the Georgia case.

Donald Trump should fear this latest case the most, because he can’t get out of it

The former US president faces the humiliation of a mugshot for the first time – and he won’t be able to get a pardon if convicted

Donald Trump has been charged with his fourth criminal case – and it’s the one he should fear the most.

The former US president has been indicted in Georgia with running a “criminal enterprise” to overturn the results of the 2020 election.

Across 13 counts, the Fulton County district attorney alleged a wide-ranging plot to help Mr Trump stay in power illegally after he lost to Joe Biden.

The indictment goes much further than the separate case being brought by special counsel, Jack Smith, for similar alleged crimes.

In Atlanta, it isn’t just Mr Trump that is being accused: his former personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani and his former White House attorney John Eastman are among the 18 other defendants.

The scale of the indictment is so broad that John Dean, the former White House counsel during Richard Nixon’s administration called it “much bigger than Watergate“.

All 19 of the accused could be put on trial at the same time like a mob prosecution, which is fitting as the law under which they were charged, called the Rico Act, was designed exactly for that purpose.

Why should Mr Trump fear this case the most? Simple: he can’t get out of it.

Mr Trump can’t get his political allies to pardon him, including a future Republican president, or himself, were he to win the 2024 election.

The Georgia case would be handled under the state system and Georgia law does not allow the governor to pardon defendants convicted of state crimes, unlike the majority of America.

That is why the case unfolding at the court in Atlanta matters so much: it could be the one that really sticks.

Another big difference is that in this case there is a mandatory minimum sentence for the Rico counts: at least five years with a maximum of 20 years.

For a defendant like Mr Trump who, remarkably, doesn’t have a criminal record, that will be chilling.

Then there’s the public shaming that comes with this case as there will be, for the first time, a mugshot of Mr Trump after he is booked.

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https://inew...et-out-2548303

Funny he’s not presenting his report in Georgia, where he alleges all this awfulness happened.

I’m reading today that these latest charges are the ones which really will sink him if he’s convicted. These are state charges, so the President can’t subsequently pardon someone once convicted of them, and Georgia is one of the few states that won’t allow a governor to issue pardons for state convictions at all. Plus, what he’s accused of carries a minimum 5-year jail term on conviction.

So no future Republican president of the Union and no future Republican governor of Georgia will be able to spring him from jail, should he end up there.

The stakes are high.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Chris

Funny he’s not presenting his report in Georgia, where he alleges all this awfulness happened.

I’m reading today that these latest charges are the ones which really will sink him if he’s convicted. These are state charges, so the President can’t subsequently pardon someone once convicted of them, and Georgia is one of the few states that won’t allow a governor to issue pardons for state convictions at all. Plus, what he’s accused of carries a minimum 5-year jail term on conviction.

So no future Republican president of the Union and no future Republican governor of Georgia will be able to spring him from jail, should he end up there.

The stakes are high.

Not to mention the obligatory mugshot too!

It’s also worth noting that while Trump is blowing hard about Georgia having an elected Democrat as state prosecutor, all the prosecutor can actually do at this stage is *ask* a Grand Jury to review the charges and the evidence and decide whether there’s a case to answer. The Grand Jury votes and the defendants are then either indicted, or else there’s no case to answer.

The Grand Jury in this case consisted of 23 individuals, and all of them will have been subjected to the usual theatrical and overblown jury selection process the American legal system loves so much. Trump’s legal team will have had the opportunity to spot and object to any obvious attempt to stack the jury politically against him. So even *if* the prosecution was politically motivated, it still stands or falls on the evidence, and the evidence has already been in front of a jury large enough that there’s simply no way it could have been a democrat stitch-up.

Nearly right (amended for Northern District, which Fulton County is in)

https://www.gand.uscourts.gov/sites/...ror_HB-101.pdf

Page 3 (can’t cut and paste for some reason)

https://www.gand.uscourts.gov/jury-info

Grand Jury:
The function of the Grand Jury is not to determine guilt or innocence, but only whether there is probable cause to believe that a crime has been committed and a specific person or persons committed it. If the grand jury finds probable cause exists to suspect a person of having committed a crime, then it will return a written statement of the charges called an “indictment.” After that, the person will stand trial.

Grand Jurors will be coming from locations throughout the forty-six counties of the Northern District of Georgia for regular meetings in the City of Atlanta. From a larger number of prospective jurors summoned and reporting, a Grand Jury panel consisting of twenty-three persons will be randomly selected to serve.

tl:dr - the Defense lawyers aren’t involved at this stage, but it’s a random selection of 23 jurors.

Also, Georgia trials can be televised…