Missing Titanic Sub

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Mr K

Sad, but the migrants off that drowned off the coast of the Canary Islands on Wednesday , will have had a worse death. Sod all coverage of that, as they weren't billionaires. Just desperate poor people.

Not so poor that they couldn't pay the people traffickers.

The sub story was an ongoing one. They was something ongoing to report on.

Originally Posted by Mr K

Sad, but the migrants off that drowned off the coast of the Canary Islands on Wednesday , will have had a worse death. Sod all coverage of that, as they weren't billionaires. Just desperate poor people.

Yeah, I’ve seen that trope all over Twitter the past 48 hours - actually referring to the Greek incident, rather than the Canary Islands one. Either way the problems with it are several.

First, the events didn’t happen at the same time, and when the migrant tragedy occurred actually it did lead the news, in the UK at least, for at least a couple of days. Hardly anything leads national news bulletins longer than that unless there are continuing revelations. So the claim is disingenuous.

Second, the authorities involved are not the same. We can’t know what the US or Canadian coastguard or naval services would have done had they had jurisdiction in the Med, nor what the Greeks would have done in the North Atlantic. You’re trying to compare apples with pears.

Third, much of the moral outrage on social media has dealt in juvenile caricatures in which everyone on the ship in the med is automatically of noble character and has died tragically while the rich people on the sub are somehow corrupt and deserving of their fate. These sentiments ultimately help nobody because policy-makers can simply discount them as the fringe lunacy of the usual suspects.

Beginning such observations with a perfunctory ‘sad, but…’ does not absolve you from what ought to be a basic human duty to treat all loss of life as a tragedy, if not for the sake of those lost then for the sake of those left behind to grieve. There has been rather too much moralising that, when you scratch beneath the surface, actually looks a lot like the cynical exploitation of one human tragedy to advance a political campaign concerned with another human tragedy.

[jfman]

Events don't need to happen simultaneously to draw legitimate comparisons, nor within the same geography. Especially if the tragedies are supposedly human ones.

Nobody sincerely believes the loss of all human life is a tragedy, neither that it's a human duty to do so. It's the kind of trope people roll out in exactly this type of occasion to silence critics of how the discretion is actually applied in the real world by policy makers.

Originally Posted by jfman

Events don't need to happen simultaneously to draw legitimate comparisons, nor within the same geography. Especially if the tragedies are supposedly human ones.

Nobody sincerely believes the loss of all human life is a tragedy, neither that it's a human duty to do so. It's the kind of trope people roll out in exactly this type of occasion to silence critics of how the discretion is actually applied in the real world by policy makers.

He would say that wouldn’t he? …. Surely not invoking Mrs Thatcher are we?

Except, as I pointed out above, the primary failure of the argument here is that the two incidents lie in the purview of two entirely different sets of policymakers. Who’s to say what the Canadians or the Americans would have done had the migrant tragedy unfolded on their doorstep? Or the Greeks, if confronted by a stranded sub full of billionaires?

Different take on the tragedy…

[Sephiroth]

Titanium snout; titanium rear end; carbon fibre torso.

Seams come to mind.

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Titanium snout; titanium rear end; carbon fibre torso.

Seams come to mind.

Laws of physics come to mind. The sausage shape was entirely due to the need to cram in more paying passengers and had nothing to do with it being a better shape for withstanding high pressure than a sphere (because it isn’t).

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Chris

He would say that wouldn’t he? …. Surely not invoking Mrs Thatcher are we?

Except, as I pointed out above, the primary failure of the argument here is that the two incidents lie in the purview of two entirely different sets of policymakers. Who’s to say what the Canadians or the Americans would have done had the migrant tragedy unfolded on their doorstep? Or the Greeks, if confronted by a stranded sub full of billionaires?

Who is to say indeed. One can only rely upon educated guesses. Or a mystical belief in a North American Utopia that incidentally doesn't ordinarily volunteer to take on the refugees it bombs onto Europe's shores.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Sanctimonious crap.

Not so sure it is tbh

Originally Posted by Chris

Third, much of the moral outrage on social media has dealt in juvenile caricatures in which everyone on the ship in the med is automatically of noble character and has died tragically while the rich people on the sub are somehow corrupt and deserving of their fate. These sentiments ultimately help nobody because policy-makers can simply discount them as the fringe lunacy of the usual suspects.

I didn't think there was any nobility in poverty

Originally Posted by Hugh

Different take on the tragedy…

Bozo really is a colossal johnson

[jfman]

Not quite sure Titanic tourism is exactly space exploration.

That said, for anyone interested the planned launch of the space shuttle Endeavour (STS-400) to rescue the crew of Atlantis (STS-125) in the event of observable heat shield failure is a fascinating read. This deviated from every other rescue launch of a shuttle in that those anticipated refuge in the International Space Station.

Originally Posted by jfman

Not quite sure Titanic tourism is exactly space exploration.

That said, for anyone interested the planned launch of the space shuttle Endeavour (STS-400) to rescue the crew of Atlantis (STS-125) in the event of observable heat shield failure is a fascinating read. This deviated from every other rescue launch of a shuttle in that those anticipated refuge in the International Space Station.

IIRC that was the final Hubble servicing mission. There was no possible flight plan that would have allowed Atlantis to reach the ISS in the event of heat shield damage, hence the requirement to have another shuttle ready to go.

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Mr K

Sad, but the migrants off that drowned off the coast of the Canary Islands on Wednesday , will have had a worse death. Sod all coverage of that, as they weren't billionaires. Just desperate poor people.

So launching into the Atlantic Ocean is a sensible thing to do at a cost of thousands of dollors? What planet are you on?
I don't see any need for seeking asylum from the Canaries unless they were heading to Russia.

[Mad Max]

Originally Posted by pip08456

So launching into the Atlantic Ocean is a sensible thing to do at a cost of thousands of dollors? What planet are you on?
I don't see any need for seeking asylum from the Canaries unless they were heading to Russia.

Absolutely spot on, well said.

Originally Posted by pip08456

So launching into the Atlantic Ocean is a sensible thing to do at a cost of thousands of dollors? What planet are you on?
I don't see any need for seeking asylum from the Canaries unless they were heading to Russia.

They were travelling from North Africa to the Canaries

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-islands-spain

[Hom3r]

12 men have walked on the moon, and about 6 have been to the Mariana Trench which is 7 miles down.

Now astronauts know that they are sitting on a bomb which could go bang on the pad and still are willing to go.

So I would say that the risk of an implostion and depths below the ocean is a similar risk, but they would still do it.