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Old 17-01-2022, 13:16   #3796
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Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
Just looks like he's using emergency regulation to get round the commitment not to reduce environmental protection.

Certainly fails the man-on-the- Clapham-omnibus test even if it doesn't fail the test of keen Brexiters.
Au contraire - 2 years is a wholly inadequate data set in order to prove your assertion. It ‘fails’ the test only in the mind of keen remainers who are still so triggered by Brexit they have a near pathological need to keep trawling the internet looking for proof they were right.

---------- Post added at 13:16 ---------- Previous post was at 13:13 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenMcr View Post
Depends what you mean by domestic.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10472258


And it seems that was due to competition - although I do appreciate there is no context around the tariffs at the time
In 2010, they were firmly under the influence of EU tariffs which were largely responsible for beet producers’ ability to undercut them. Cane and beet refining processes aren’t identical and you can’t simply feed different raw materials into the same factory set up. The raw commodity prices were effectively handing a built-in competitive advantage to manufacturers set up to use beet.
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Old 17-01-2022, 13:43   #3797
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Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris View Post
Au contraire - 2 years is a wholly inadequate data set in order to prove your assertion. It ‘fails’ the test only in the mind of keen remainers who are still so triggered by Brexit they have a near pathological need to keep trawling the internet looking for proof they were right.
I'm not sure it's Remainers who are getting triggered into defending this sticky situation.
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Old 17-01-2022, 13:45   #3798
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Re: Britain outside the EU

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
I'm not sure it's Remainers who are getting triggered into defending this sticky situation.
I think you don’t understand what ‘triggered’ means.
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Old 17-01-2022, 13:52   #3799
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Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenMcr View Post
Depends what you mean by domestic.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10472258

And it seems that was due to competition - although I do appreciate there is no context around the tariffs at the time
Tate & Lyle is now part of US-based sugar company ASR but still has a large refinery in London.
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Old 17-01-2022, 16:34   #3800
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Re: Britain outside the EU

Meanwhile back in the real world ..

The Con

PM pledges to defend UK farming standards in trade talks

Quote:
Boris Johnson has promised the country’s farmers that he will defend British food and farming standards in the UK's trade negotiations.

“We won’t compromise on high environmental protection, animal welfare and food standards,” he said in his address today.

Farm leaders have repeatedly expressed fears that the government may be prepared to allow imports produced to lower standards in order to secure trade agreements with the likes of the US and Australia.
Reality:

RSPCA raises serious concerns over animal welfare and climate change as full Australia trade deal is signed

Quote:
As the UK today announced the free trade deal with Australia, the RSPCA raises serious concerns that this deal will mean beef and lamb imports produced to lower animal welfare standards will enter the country as well undermining the UK's position as a leader on tackling climate change.

Australian food production follows much lower animal welfare standards than in the UK which means that this Free Trade Deal will make it easier for products which would never meet the UK production standards to be imported and sold in the UK. This will include imported beef from cattle raised on enormous, bare feed-lots and suffering transport times of up to 48 hours, and lamb from sheep that have been mulesed without anaesthetic, a mutilation that is banned in the UK. Concerningly, as the UK's procurement standards allow in low welfare imports, these products could even find their way onto the menus of public sector organisations and into the meals of school children and hospital patients who don't have a choice about the origins of their food
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Old 02-02-2022, 13:18   #3801
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Re: Britain outside the EU

Heard Johnson today claim that vaccines were approved quicker due to Brexit. I can understand why he is seeking some tangible benefits of Brexit. A remind that the facts don't back him up, courtesy of the fact-checkers at Full Fact.
Vaccine approval isn’t quicker because of Brexit
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Old 02-02-2022, 13:31   #3802
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Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
Heard Johnson today claim that vaccines were approved quicker due to Brexit. I can understand why he is seeking some tangible benefits of Brexit. A remind that the facts don't back him up, courtesy of the fact-checkers at Full Fact.
Vaccine approval isn’t quicker because of Brexit
And a reminder that there is more to the EU than its regulations. A number of EU countries were pursuing independent vaccine procurement before the EU scheme got up and running. All of them agreed to halt their independent efforts in order to join the EU scheme. None of them had to, but at the level of the Council of Ministers, much is achieved by consensus and there is always a very high degree of political pressure used in pursuit of it.

It is highly unlikely that the UK would have been politically able to pursue an independent vaccine procurement policy had we still been in the EU at that time, regardless of the letter of the law.

That said, none of this is surprising to me. The political reach of the EU is one of the things us real long-term Eurosceptics warned about for decades, while even now it’s something many hardline remainers simply can’t, or won’t, see.
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Old 02-02-2022, 15:23   #3803
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Re: Britain outside the EU

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Originally Posted by Chris View Post
That said, none of this is surprising to me. The political reach of the EU is one of the things us real long-term Eurosceptics warned about for decades, while even now it’s something many hardline remainers simply can’t, or won’t, see.
We're out of the EU. There is no such thing as 'remainer'.
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Old 02-02-2022, 15:40   #3804
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Re: Britain outside the EU

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Originally Posted by BenMcr View Post
We're out of the EU. There is no such thing as 'remainer'.
Pretty sure you know exactly what I mean.
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Old 02-02-2022, 15:44   #3805
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Re: Britain outside the EU

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Originally Posted by Chris View Post
Pretty sure you know exactly what I mean.
He does. But I refer to those still grasping at any slight opportunity to get back in to the corrupted EU, the Alastair Campbell’s, Lord Adonis, Michael Heseltine… as Remainiacs.
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Old 02-02-2022, 15:50   #3806
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Re: Britain outside the EU

I think that type of terminology is less of a helpful naming convention and more of a phrase that smacks of belittlement. There were plenty of similar phrases from both sides thrown about in 2016; it's time to move on.

I would suggest the term rejoiners is more appropriate and constructive.

Last edited by 1andrew1; 02-02-2022 at 15:53.
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Old 02-02-2022, 16:00   #3807
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Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
I think that type of terminology is less of a helpful naming convention and more of a phrase that smacks of belittlement. There were plenty of similar phrases from both sides thrown about in 2016; it's time to move on.

I would suggest the term rejoiners is more appropriate and constructive.
Hardly.

There are plenty of remainers (i.e. people who voted remain and still wish we had remained) who nevertheless do not think we should now rejoin. I’m not going to start calling everyone who voted remain in 2016 a rejoiner because they are by no means the same set of people, though doubtless some of them are.
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Old 02-02-2022, 16:06   #3808
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Re: Britain outside the EU

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Originally Posted by Chris View Post
Hardly.

There are plenty of remainers (i.e. people who voted remain and still wish we had remained) who nevertheless do not think we should now rejoin. I’m not going to start calling everyone who voted remain in 2016 a rejoiner because they are by no means the same set of people, though doubtless some of them are.
I'm suggesting that instead of labelling someone who wants to join a remainiac, they are called a rejoiner. I'm not suggesting everyone who voted remain is called a rejoiner as many or even most are not.
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Old 02-02-2022, 16:07   #3809
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Re: Britain outside the EU

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Originally Posted by Chris View Post
There are plenty of remainers (i.e. people who voted remain and still wish we had remained) who nevertheless do not think we should now rejoin.
So 'people' then?
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Old 02-02-2022, 16:14   #3810
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Re: Britain outside the EU

A lot of Remainers would still vote to Remain if given the chance but also don't think it's worth the effort nor the toxicity it would inject back into British politics. It's actually pretty healthy that the Brexit divide has become less important as time has gone on, there was a fear British politics would split along those lines.

The actual number of people who think it is worth the effort and want to pursue is a small minority of hardcore activists who are doing it - in part - because they've carved out a niche for themselves around that identity. They're a bit weird and come out with essentially fan fiction on how it'll happen when writing on Twitter.
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