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Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'
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Old 27-10-2016, 11:42   #46
Kursk
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Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'

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Originally Posted by TheDaddy View Post
Superseded by the beattitudes, from the mouth of Jesus himself iirc
Thanks. I am no Bible scholar and assumed the beatitudes supplemented the Commandments rather than superseded them.

But anyway, this is straying too far from the 'gay cake' issue
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Old 27-10-2016, 16:28   #47
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Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'

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Originally Posted by Kursk View Post
Thanks. I am no Bible scholar and assumed the beatitudes supplemented the Commandments rather than superseded them.

But anyway, this is straying too far from the 'gay cake' issue
Do cakes have a sexual orientation?
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Old 27-10-2016, 17:26   #48
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Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'

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Do cakes have a sexual orientation?
I think fruit cakes are homosexual .

Look, I used the terminology of the thread title, so ask the OP.
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Old 27-10-2016, 18:08   #49
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Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'

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Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
How many cases are there where Muslim shop assistants have refused to serve certain items?

Halal slaughtered meat is by LAW, only allowed to consumed by Muslims. Is that enforced? All the Halal-only takeaways should technically only serve meat to Muslims.
Absolute codswallop ,anyone can eat Halal meat or even Kosha for that matter
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Old 27-10-2016, 18:56   #50
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Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'

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Originally Posted by martyh View Post
Absolute codswallop ,anyone can eat Halal meat or even Kosha for that matter
Some of us have actually checked the law.

Germany has a quota system to make sure that Halal and Kosher slaughter isn't used more than is required for religious reasons.

Link
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You must stun all animals before you slaughter them unless an animal is being religiously slaughtered for halal or kosher meat.
You must meet all of the following requirements for halal and kosher religious slaughter:
  • it must take place in a slaughterhouse (abattoir) approved by the Food Standards Agency (FSA)
  • it must be done by someone who has a certificate of competence (CoC)
  • the slaughter must be done in a way that follows Jewish or Islamic religious practice
  • the meat must be intended for consumption by Jews or Muslims
Otherwise there would be no need for an exemption as all animal slaughter could be done that way.
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He mentioned that there is a dispensation for religious belief, but the Halal Food Authority estimates that halal meat makes up about 25% of the meat market.
Quote:
. In Germany, abattoirs have to prove the religious needs, and the number of animals to be slaughtered to satisfy the needs of the religious community concerned, before they are granted a licence.

Last edited by nomadking; 27-10-2016 at 19:03.
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Old 27-10-2016, 19:02   #51
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Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'

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Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
Some of us have actually checked the law.

Germany has a quota system to make sure that Halal and Kosher slaughter isn't used more than is required for religious reasons.

Link
Otherwise there would be no need for an exemption as all animal slaughter could be done that way.

Firstly ,that is only guidance not law ,secondly no where does it say that only Muslims can eat Halal meat
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Old 27-10-2016, 19:07   #52
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Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'

What has Gemany got to do with it? If nothing why mention it?
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Old 27-10-2016, 19:27   #53
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Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'

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Originally Posted by martyh View Post
Firstly ,that is only guidance not law ,secondly no where does it say that only Muslims can eat Halal meat
Non-Muslims are not allowed to be supplied with Halal slaughtered meat. The clue is in the word "must".
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Originally Posted by pip08456 View Post
What has Gemany got to do with it? If nothing why mention it?
If you have a rule and allow exemptions on religious grounds, then you have to have methods to stop the wholesale abuse of the exemption. Germany chose to do it using quotas and a licensing system. No point having a law and then having an exemption which
would allow for breaking of that law 100% of the time.
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Old 27-10-2016, 19:30   #54
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Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'

OK I'll put it another way.

What has the way Germany does things got anything to do with anything that this country does? If nothing why mention it?
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Old 27-10-2016, 19:38   #55
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Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'

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Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
Non-Muslims are not allowed to be supplied with Halal slaughtered meat. The clue is in the word "must".
If you have a rule and allow exemptions on religious grounds, then you have to have methods to stop the wholesale abuse of the exemption. Germany chose to do it using quotas and a licensing system. No point having a law and then having an exemption which
would allow for breaking of that law 100% of the time.
Your interpreting the guidance wrong .There is an exception for Halal and Kosher slaughter,so if you are going to use that exception in your slaughter house and provide Halal or Kosher meat then you should show evidence that you are supplying meat for Muslims or Jews and not the local corner shop ,no where does any law state that the meat is only for Muslim or Jewish consumption,anyone can eat Halal or Kosher meat ,neither is there any law that requires Muslims or jews to only eat only Halal or Kosher meat .
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Old 27-10-2016, 19:44   #56
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Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'

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Originally Posted by martyh View Post
Your interpreting the guidance wrong .There is an exception for Halal and Kosher slaughter,so if you are going to use that exception in your slaughter house and provide Halal or Kosher meat then you should show evidence that you are supplying meat for Muslims or Jews and not the local corner shop ,no where does any law state that the meat is only for Muslim or Jewish consumption,anyone can eat Halal or Kosher meat ,neither is there any law that requires Muslims or jews to only eat only Halal or Kosher meat .
Where did I say that people couldn't eat Halal meat? There isn't a total ban on consumption of cigarettes or alcohol, but there are restrictions on who they can be sold to.

The original law comes from the EU. The EU also allows the national governments to have exemptions. The quote about Germany comes from a House of Commons debate on religious slaughter.
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Old 27-10-2016, 19:50   #57
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Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'

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Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
Where did I say that people couldn't eat Halal meat? There isn't a total ban on consumption of cigarettes or alcohol, but there are restrictions on who they can be sold to.
.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
Halal slaughtered meat is by LAW, only allowed to consumed by Muslims. Is that enforced? All the Halal-only takeaways should technically only serve meat to Muslims.

Right there.
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Old 27-10-2016, 19:56   #58
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Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'

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Originally Posted by martyh View Post
Right there.
The 2nd sentence and all the following references are to supply of halal meat. This thread is about SUPPLY, not consumption of a product/service.
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Old 27-10-2016, 20:15   #59
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Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'

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Originally Posted by Kursk View Post
So, the Ten Commandments - just Old Testament stuff that no longer applies?
previous post mentioned murder etc but most of the mosaic law ( its not just ten commandments was all about atoning for sins or staying clean all of that, if you believe it was mostly removed by the ransom sacrifice like eating pork )

Jesus showed many times that we should not judge or force others to our view.

we should obey the law when Paul wrote to Romans about obeying the law they were under the rule of Nero a rather nasty ruler as said and done but Paul still said the laws were to be obeyed.

some may want to use Acts 5:27-29 but this is about proclaiming your faith not preventing others going about their lives lawfully.

I will Quote once more i think this is hard to misconstrue

Romans 13:8-10

8 Do not owe people anything, except always owe love to each other, because the person who loves others has obeyed all the law. 9 The law says, “You must not be guilty of adultery. You must not murder anyone. You must not steal. You must not want to take your neighbor’s things.”[a] All these commands and all others are really only one rule: “Love your neighbor as you love yourself.”[b] 10 Love never hurts a neighbor, so loving is obeying all the law.


well i am off to eat some cake and i really couldn't care less whats written on it as long as it doesn't have any of that horrible icing they use I like proper Icing and marzipan.

Last edited by rogerdraig; 27-10-2016 at 20:26.
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Old 27-10-2016, 20:42   #60
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Re: Bakers who refused to make 'gay cake' say they felt 'victimised'

I won't eat Halal meat, as l don't like animal cruelty. My wife will. Does that mean l will be taken to court.

Its about time we are allowed to do what we want
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