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Does Western society need a healthier dialouge/discourse regarding our relation with
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Old 15-01-2022, 07:01   #1
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Does Western society need a healthier dialouge/discourse regarding our relation with death/mortality?

Theres this recurring thought of mine,that what if death isnt as big of a deal as we make it out to be and it was just a control mechanism to keep us enslaved to priotise safety and comfort over freedom and self actualisation?

Yes fearing death is a primitive/innate behaviour to some extent and I feel like it is weaponised quite a bit by society.


Makes sense as when someone threatens suicide they try and stop them!!

TRYING TO FORCE THEM TO STAY HERE!!
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Old 15-01-2022, 23:18   #2
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Re: Does Western society need a healthier dialouge/discourse regarding our relation w

Often, someone threatening suicide is crying for attention and help. It's a last resort to make someone listen - when no other options seem like they exist.

Every case of threatened, attempted or successful suicide is based on an emotional response. When emotions get involved, be it distopia, stress, anger, fear (any of the negatives), norepinephrine and cortisol inhibit ones ability to think logically. Ever had an argument and 10 minutes later you are replaying it in your head and the perfect line comes up that if you said it, it would have shut the whole thing down? Blame norepinephrine. It stops you thinking clearly and with reason. And so an emotive response (looking at you here amydala / limbic system) takes precidence.

You will likely have heard of the 'fight or flight' response. In reality, it is 'freeze, flight or fight' in that order. Suicidal cruxes hit at the 'flight' part of that pattern - before the ability to fight really kicks in, because to the victim, fighting just doesn't seem like an option they can be successful in within the situation they find themselves trying to get out of.

And so, rather than allow someone to carry out a rather permanent solution to a very temporary issue (as is most often the case with those in suicidal positions), we will always try to support that person through the toughest time of their existance. We help them see that actually, whatever the problem is, suicide is not the best way to deal with it. That suicide negatively affects an awful lot of other people who care about them deeply, and who, given the opportunity, will help them to get out of the rut they feel they are in. That death is not the only way out.

So stopping someone is not a selfish act of enslavement to squeeze every last bit of societal benefit from someone. It's about being a caring and supportive person for someone in dire need of help. It's about being a voice of reason and not emotion. To look someone in the eye and tell them you are listening, that you will be there for them and that together, you will get them through whatever issues they are facing. That it will be better. That they are loved.

Mental wellbeing affects anyone from any walk of life. From any place on earth and at any time in their life. It doesn't only affect those whom 'society' (and here I believe you are pointing a finger at the tax man) thinks can benefit from via a 9 to 5 job. Think of those people who are retired as a plain example - they no longer put in to the economy, they take out. Why would society try to stop them from suicide if it would actually mean more money left in the government's pot because they are not handing it out should they die?

I feel that your comments really show a huge misunderstanding of mental wellbeing and whom / how it affects people. A misguided and ill informed mindset. I hope you are only commenting in such a way so as to invoke responses in the thread, and that this is not actually what you believe to be the truth.
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Old 16-01-2022, 00:23   #3
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Re: Does Western society need a healthier dialouge/discourse regarding our relation w

Sometimes it's shockingly easy to talk someone out of suicide, I remember a guy breaking into a building in Tottenham with the intention of jumping of the roof and all it took to stop him was asking who was going to look after his dog, I've often wondered what became of him, I hope he got the help he needed but fear the worst tbh
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Old 16-01-2022, 08:18   #4
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Re: Does Western society need a healthier dialouge/discourse regarding our relation w

Quote:
Originally Posted by idi banashapan View Post
Often, someone threatening suicide is crying for attention and help. It's a last resort to make someone listen - when no other options seem like they exist.

Every case of threatened, attempted or successful suicide is based on an emotional response. When emotions get involved, be it distopia, stress, anger, fear (any of the negatives), norepinephrine and cortisol inhibit ones ability to think logically. Ever had an argument and 10 minutes later you are replaying it in your head and the perfect line comes up that if you said it, it would have shut the whole thing down? Blame norepinephrine. It stops you thinking clearly and with reason. And so an emotive response (looking at you here amydala / limbic system) takes precidence.

You will likely have heard of the 'fight or flight' response. In reality, it is 'freeze, flight or fight' in that order. Suicidal cruxes hit at the 'flight' part of that pattern - before the ability to fight really kicks in, because to the victim, fighting just doesn't seem like an option they can be successful in within the situation they find themselves trying to get out of.

And so, rather than allow someone to carry out a rather permanent solution to a very temporary issue (as is most often the case with those in suicidal positions), we will always try to support that person through the toughest time of their existance. We help them see that actually, whatever the problem is, suicide is not the best way to deal with it. That suicide negatively affects an awful lot of other people who care about them deeply, and who, given the opportunity, will help them to get out of the rut they feel they are in. That death is not the only way out.

So stopping someone is not a selfish act of enslavement to squeeze every last bit of societal benefit from someone. It's about being a caring and supportive person for someone in dire need of help. It's about being a voice of reason and not emotion. To look someone in the eye and tell them you are listening, that you will be there for them and that together, you will get them through whatever issues they are facing. That it will be better. That they are loved.

Mental wellbeing affects anyone from any walk of life. From any place on earth and at any time in their life. It doesn't only affect those whom 'society' (and here I believe you are pointing a finger at the tax man) thinks can benefit from via a 9 to 5 job. Think of those people who are retired as a plain example - they no longer put in to the economy, they take out. Why would society try to stop them from suicide if it would actually mean more money left in the government's pot because they are not handing it out should they die?

I feel that your comments really show a huge misunderstanding of mental wellbeing and whom / how it affects people. A misguided and ill informed mindset. I hope you are only commenting in such a way so as to invoke responses in the thread, and that this is not actually what you believe to be the truth.
What an excellent post. It's informed, considered, rational and totally at odds to what i'm used to seeing on here.

I believe that life as we are currently experiencing it is essentially a type of education in order to improve ourselves. When our time here is finished, we will look back at a review of our life to see what we have learned, how we have improved and how we have contributed positively to the lives of others.

We won't revisit the mundane things that we did, such as taking the rubbish out, but the things that made a positive or negative difference to that of other souls. Some we will remember and some we won't have a clue about, such as what a different a smile made to a stranger on one particular day.

Conversely, we are all likely to have done bad or negative things either intentionally or unintentionally and we can learn from these incidents too.

We don't currently remember our time before coming to this physical plane and are led to believe that death is the end so that we take life and what it has to offer seriously.

Suicide isn't the end, but is not recommended either. To me, it's like packing in a college course halfway through- you might as well see it through until the end. Those who do take the suicide route aren't punished though as some religions would have us believe, they are considered as ill and given all the support that they need afterwards.

It's the same as those who do things considered to be wrong or bad that do them due to a mental disability or illness.

Last edited by RichardCoulter; 16-01-2022 at 08:22.
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Old 16-01-2022, 11:22   #5
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Re: Does Western society need a healthier dialouge/discourse regarding our relation w

Quote:
What an excellent post. It's informed, considered, rational and totally at odds to what i'm used to seeing on here.
And yet, here you are…
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Old 16-01-2022, 12:29   #6
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Re: Does Western society need a healthier dialouge/discourse regarding our relation w

In the UK death seems a taboo subject, yet if you see the news from some countries you see men and women wailing in the street full of emotion.


But I guess we have the British stiff upper lip that stops us.
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Old 16-01-2022, 12:37   #7
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Re: Does Western society need a healthier dialouge/discourse regarding our relation w

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
And yet, here you are…
What do you mean

---------- Post added at 11:37 ---------- Previous post was at 11:36 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hom3r View Post
In the UK death seems a taboo subject, yet if you see the news from some countries you see men and women wailing in the street full of emotion.


But I guess we have the British stiff upper lip that stops us.
Different cultures tend to view it differently don't they
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Old 19-01-2022, 21:34   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idi banashapan
I feel that your comments really show a huge misunderstanding of mental wellbeing and whom / how it affects people. A misguided and ill informed mindset. I hope you are only commenting in such a way so as to invoke responses in the thread, and that this is not actually what you believe to be the truth.
Thank you for your good reply!!

I guess I dont understand why when someone says suicide people try to stop them... Its thier life,if they dont wanna be here why force them??

Yea alot of times they are just saying that but alot of times they really want to..

I remember years ago a friend of mine that was on anti-depressants told his wife he would be home later and went and hung himself..... I dunno how you would do something like that,it must be hard
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Old 19-01-2022, 23:02   #9
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Re: Does Western society need a healthier dialouge/discourse regarding our relation w

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dude111 View Post
Thank you for your good reply!!

I guess I dont understand why when someone says suicide people try to stop them... Its thier life,if they dont wanna be here why force them??

Yea alot of times they are just saying that but alot of times they really want to..

I remember years ago a friend of mine that was on anti-depressants told his wife he would be home later and went and hung himself..... I dunno how you would do something like that,it must be hard
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Old 20-01-2022, 10:37   #10
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Re: Does Western society need a healthier dialouge/discourse regarding our relation w

With suicide, most of the time people won't actually do it. They will threaten to do it but never actually go through with that. Sadly there are a few that will go through with it.


A friend of mine did commit suicide but we think he was actually hoping to be found.

Alas, when he was found it was too late.


We have to consider the fact that there are a lot more ways people can be made to feel sicidal these days. Just by the power of the Internet you can be bullied right into your own home. Finding an area of safety and place where you can talk and get help is difficult in our fast paced world where people can put judgements on others.

It is great to know there are charities and groups out there that try their best to help people and are there for them.




I know it is hard to sometimes understand why someone does commit suicide but we can all too often be actors and put on a smile when in reality could be breaking down inside.


There are times when people may feel leavimng this world is the only option. They may be surrounded in debt, have been in a mesy relationship, the list is endless.

I guess it is about showing someone that there are better days and that although they may not see a purpose right now, getting better and then evaluating things will give them a clearer way of thinking and see there is a reason to live.
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Old 20-01-2022, 11:42   #11
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Re: Does Western society need a healthier dialouge/discourse regarding our relation w

You don't just have to think of the suicidal person but also their friends and families.
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Old 24-01-2022, 09:10   #12
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Yea those are the ones your really hurting and they might not forgive you for doing it either!!
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