Home News Forum Articles
  Welcome back Join CF
You are here You are here: Home | Forum | Will Scotland Leave the UK?

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most of the discussions, articles and other free features. By joining our Virgin Media community you will have full access to all discussions, be able to view and post threads, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own images/photos, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please join our community today.


Welcome to Cable Forum
Go Back   Cable Forum > General Discussion > Current Affairs

Will Scotland Leave the UK?
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 28-03-2023, 08:55   #4306
Chris
Trollsplatter
Cable Forum Team
 
Chris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: North of Watford
Services: Humane elimination of all common Internet pests
Posts: 36,870
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 View Post
I don't live in Islington and I am half Scottish. My grandfather was a piper in a Scottish regiment, my father was born in Scotland and I have a sister and brother both living in the Highlands, who I talk to regularly about Scottish politics. I know more about Scotland than your snide remarks imply. Arrogance is not a good look.
I also had friends and family here for decades before coming to live here (which I have done for 20 years). Sitting here daily surrounded by friends, acquaintances and strangers, the Scottish press and TV, and lacking the inevitable constraint of getting my news filtered by family, I can say with confidence that your earlier comments simply don’t align with reality. If you don’t actually live here then you’re getting your news from a limited viewpoint coloured by your own assumptions.

Humza Yousaf is the SNP establishment placeman. Nothing much will change under his watch, which is a bullet not dodged but very much to the brain for the SNP given the problems it faces. In particular, the SNP’s desire to merge health and social care, a policy he has been intimately involved with as health secretary, is in serious trouble and facing opposition from local authorities and trade unions. If he lacks the political skill to deliver one flagship policy he’s unlikely to thrive as FM in charge of the whole lot.

The chickens will have very come home to roost by the time the next Holyrood election comes round in 2026, by which time the SNP will have been in power for 19 years. Yousaf has done nothing to show he has the political skill required to defy gravity and win another election, and much to suggest he lacks that ability.

Kate Forbes was the one the SNP heirarchy very much did not want in charge yet she ended the contest with 48% of the support - this from paid up, politically engaged members of what is supposedly an extremely politically progressive party. The reality is, the SNP has for the last 20 years been what the clique running it has decided it is, and not at all reflective of its wider membership except on the narrow issue of independence. This is unsurprising given that the SNP is really just a single issue pressure group forced to act as a full-on political party in order to secure its core aim.

Forbes’ social conservatism was popular with - or at least tolerable to - almost half the SNP’s membership, and she was notably more popular with the public at large than either Yousaf or Regan (net approval ratings -8, -20 and -24 respectively).

https://news.stv.tv/politics/humza-y...lic-poll-finds

To sum it all up … the only way you can conclude that the SNP has dodged a bullet by choosing Yousaf is if you personally approve of what he represents in terms of a socially progressive Scotland. Because based on actual facts - prior competence in office, likely ability to win a difficult election, alignment with actual Scottish social values - he’s a distant second to Forbes.

Which is why every opposition leader in Scotland with the exception of the Greens was celebrating last night.

Last edited by Chris; 28-03-2023 at 08:58.
Chris is offline   Reply With Quote
Advertisement
Old 28-03-2023, 10:27   #4307
Hugh
laeva recumbens anguis
Cable Forum Team
 
Hugh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 67
Services: Premiere Collection
Posts: 42,040
Hugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden aura
Hugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden aura
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post
You would pick on that part of my reply.
And yet, you still posted it…

You didn’t answer the question - why wouldn’t he be in the SNP?
__________________
There is always light.
If only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it
.
If my post is in bold and this colour, it's a Moderator Request.

Last edited by Hugh; 28-03-2023 at 10:35.
Hugh is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 28-03-2023, 15:56   #4308
ianch99
cf.mega poster
 
ianch99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,398
ianch99 has a bronze arrayianch99 has a bronze arrayianch99 has a bronze array
ianch99 has a bronze arrayianch99 has a bronze arrayianch99 has a bronze arrayianch99 has a bronze arrayianch99 has a bronze arrayianch99 has a bronze arrayianch99 has a bronze arrayianch99 has a bronze arrayianch99 has a bronze arrayianch99 has a bronze arrayianch99 has a bronze arrayianch99 has a bronze arrayianch99 has a bronze arrayianch99 has a bronze arrayianch99 has a bronze arrayianch99 has a bronze arrayianch99 has a bronze arrayianch99 has a bronze array
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris View Post
I also had friends and family here for decades before coming to live here (which I have done for 20 years). Sitting here daily surrounded by friends, acquaintances and strangers, the Scottish press and TV, and lacking the inevitable constraint of getting my news filtered by family, I can say with confidence that your earlier comments simply don’t align with reality. If you don’t actually live here then you’re getting your news from a limited viewpoint coloured by your own assumptions.

Humza Yousaf is the SNP establishment placeman. Nothing much will change under his watch, which is a bullet not dodged but very much to the brain for the SNP given the problems it faces. In particular, the SNP’s desire to merge health and social care, a policy he has been intimately involved with as health secretary, is in serious trouble and facing opposition from local authorities and trade unions. If he lacks the political skill to deliver one flagship policy he’s unlikely to thrive as FM in charge of the whole lot.

The chickens will have very come home to roost by the time the next Holyrood election comes round in 2026, by which time the SNP will have been in power for 19 years. Yousaf has done nothing to show he has the political skill required to defy gravity and win another election, and much to suggest he lacks that ability.

Kate Forbes was the one the SNP heirarchy very much did not want in charge yet she ended the contest with 48% of the support - this from paid up, politically engaged members of what is supposedly an extremely politically progressive party. The reality is, the SNP has for the last 20 years been what the clique running it has decided it is, and not at all reflective of its wider membership except on the narrow issue of independence. This is unsurprising given that the SNP is really just a single issue pressure group forced to act as a full-on political party in order to secure its core aim.

Forbes’ social conservatism was popular with - or at least tolerable to - almost half the SNP’s membership, and she was notably more popular with the public at large than either Yousaf or Regan (net approval ratings -8, -20 and -24 respectively).

https://news.stv.tv/politics/humza-y...lic-poll-finds

To sum it all up … the only way you can conclude that the SNP has dodged a bullet by choosing Yousaf is if you personally approve of what he represents in terms of a socially progressive Scotland. Because based on actual facts - prior competence in office, likely ability to win a difficult election, alignment with actual Scottish social values - he’s a distant second to Forbes.

Which is why every opposition leader in Scotland with the exception of the Greens was celebrating last night.
You wilfully misrepresent what I said. My point was that if Forbes was chosen, she would have been a liability relating to progressive social issues that are important to a significant number of (younger) Scottish voters. You may not personally appreciate this point but it does not make me wrong.

I think you need to appreciate that other people can have different viewpoints and not always conclude that yours is always the only authoritative one.
__________________
Unifi Express + BT Whole Home WiFi | VM 1Gbps
ianch99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-03-2023, 16:23   #4309
Chris
Trollsplatter
Cable Forum Team
 
Chris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: North of Watford
Services: Humane elimination of all common Internet pests
Posts: 36,870
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 View Post
You wilfully misrepresent what I said. My point was that if Forbes was chosen, she would have been a liability relating to progressive social issues that are important to a significant number of (younger) Scottish voters. You may not personally appreciate this point but it does not make me wrong.

I think you need to appreciate that other people can have different viewpoints and not always conclude that yours is always the only authoritative one.
I appreciated your point perfectly well, and I disagree with it. The SNP would not have struggled with a socially conservative leader running it despite the views of younger voters. The polling data doesn’t support that view. In addition to what I’ve already posted, you can also add the fact that Scotland, as in the rest of the UK, has a turnout bias towards older voters.
Chris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-03-2023, 17:35   #4310
nashville
nashville
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Rutherglen. Glasgow
Services: Virgin Media
Posts: 5,174
nashville has a nice shiny star
nashville has a nice shiny starnashville has a nice shiny starnashville has a nice shiny starnashville has a nice shiny starnashville has a nice shiny starnashville has a nice shiny starnashville has a nice shiny starnashville has a nice shiny starnashville has a nice shiny starnashville has a nice shiny starnashville has a nice shiny star
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post
The younger voters may well favour independence. But are they wise enough to understand what shooting yourself in the foot means in the context of finance?
Scotland can't make it on its own.
I agree, The best thing that could happen is dissolve the SNP. Scottish would flourish without them, I would never vote for them and anyone trying to get rid of the Monarchy is not my cup of tea,
nashville is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-03-2023, 18:51   #4311
denphone
Still alive and fighting
 
denphone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: In the land of beyond and beyond.
Services: XL BB, 3 360 boxes , XL TV.
Posts: 56,296
denphone has a golden auradenphone has a golden aura
denphone has a golden auradenphone has a golden auradenphone has a golden auradenphone has a golden auradenphone has a golden auradenphone has a golden auradenphone has a golden auradenphone has a golden auradenphone has a golden auradenphone has a golden aura
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

And so it begins..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...team=editorial

https://news.sky.com/story/kate-forb...ousaf-12844341

Quote:
Kate Forbes is to leave the Scottish government after finishing second in the SNP leadership race.

The BBC understands she was offered a move to rural affairs by the new first minister, Humza Yousaf, but turned down the job.
__________________
“The only lesson you can learn from history is that it repeats itself”
denphone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-03-2023, 19:01   #4312
jfman
Architect of Ideas
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,226
jfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronze
jfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronze
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

Well it proves he’s got no intention of uniting the party. A warning sign to the “small c” conservatives who support independence that Chris alludes to that their principles and values don’t have a home in his “big tent”.

Last edited by jfman; 28-03-2023 at 19:04.
jfman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 28-03-2023, 23:16   #4313
Chris
Trollsplatter
Cable Forum Team
 
Chris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: North of Watford
Services: Humane elimination of all common Internet pests
Posts: 36,870
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman View Post
Well it proves he’s got no intention of uniting the party. A warning sign to the “small c” conservatives who support independence that Chris alludes to that their principles and values don’t have a home in his “big tent”.
An exceptionally dim-witted move. Whatever her beliefs, naked political calculation ought to have warned him against publicly humiliating a rival who got almost as many leadership votes as he did. He had better hope the winds are at his back for the next couple of years because if for a moment it looks like he’s not steering the ship to another impressive victory there are now a heck of a lot of people who will be less inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt, or show loyalty.
Chris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-03-2023, 19:45   #4314
jfman
Architect of Ideas
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,226
jfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronze
jfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronze
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

27 of the 28 that have Ministerial/Cabinet posts publicly backed Yousaf.

The other tweeted they couldn’t back an FM who would have voted against same sex marriage on about day 3 of the campaign.
jfman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 30-03-2023, 19:59   #4315
Chris
Trollsplatter
Cable Forum Team
 
Chris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: North of Watford
Services: Humane elimination of all common Internet pests
Posts: 36,870
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

At least we all know what to expect for the next 2-3 years. Forbes has landed on her feet here, she can sit on the backbenches while she pops out a young family, then challenge for the leadership again when Useless makes a mess of things in 2026.
Chris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-03-2023, 20:37   #4316
OLD BOY
Rise above the players
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wokingham
Services: 2 V6 boxes with 360 software, Now, ITVX, Amazon, Netflix, Lionsgate+, Apple+, Disney+, Paramount +,
Posts: 14,568
OLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronze
OLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronze
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris View Post
At least we all know what to expect for the next 2-3 years. Forbes has landed on her feet here, she can sit on the backbenches while she pops out a young family, then challenge for the leadership again when Useless makes a mess of things in 2026.
Do you think he will last that long, Chris? He’s not been successful in any of his previous ministerial posts and he’s already made his first mistake which resulted in the candidate scoring just less than him in votes telling him where he can stick his offer of a junior position in his Cabinet.

So he’s already got nearly half the party against him and his current supporters will soon become disillusioned with his incompetence.

He won’t last five minutes.
__________________
Forumbox.co.uk
OLD BOY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-03-2023, 20:39   #4317
jfman
Architect of Ideas
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,226
jfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronze
jfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronzejfman is cast in bronze
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris View Post
At least we all know what to expect for the next 2-3 years. Forbes has landed on her feet here, she can sit on the backbenches while she pops out a young family, then challenge for the leadership again when Useless makes a mess of things in 2026.
I’m not even sure it’ll take that long.

If Scottish Labour (despite their own uselessness) make inroads at a likely Starmer win at the next general election, the prospect of aligning their manifesto for 2026 with UK Government objectives (but better under devolution) might see a nervousness among MSPs fearful for their own seat on the gravy train.
jfman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2023, 13:12   #4318
Hom3r
Mum 15/08/46 - 30/09/20
 
Hom3r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Galactic Sector ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha, www.daves-world.co.uk. A secret Moonbase (shh don't tell anybody)
Age: 55
Services: 1 V6, 2x1TB TiVo, SH3. Samsung Galaxy Note 10+ 5G, Ton's of Smart Home stuff, & Cuddy Toy
Posts: 16,864
Hom3r has a pair of shiny starsHom3r has a pair of shiny starsHom3r has a pair of shiny starsHom3r has a pair of shiny stars
Hom3r has a pair of shiny stars
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

One thing I haven't heard mention is where are the SNP going to get the money they need to run Scotland, as more people live in London than live in Scotland.


I guess the Indy voters are wearing blinkers until the realise that their free prescriptions and uni will suddenly end.
__________________
STAY AT HOME: I found out that mum will never walk again as the coronavirus attacked her nervous system. She died on September 30th, wearing a mask and she still might be alive today.
Hom3r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2023, 14:15   #4319
Hugh
laeva recumbens anguis
Cable Forum Team
 
Hugh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 67
Services: Premiere Collection
Posts: 42,040
Hugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden aura
Hugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden auraHugh has a golden aura
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hom3r View Post
One thing I haven't heard mention is where are the SNP going to get the money they need to run Scotland, as more people live in London than live in Scotland.


I guess the Indy voters are wearing blinkers until the realise that their free prescriptions and uni will suddenly end.
Fairly even handed analysis here…

https://www.economicsobservatory.com...onomic-success
__________________
There is always light.
If only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it
.
If my post is in bold and this colour, it's a Moderator Request.
Hugh is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2023, 16:51   #4320
RichardCoulter
cf.mega poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,997
RichardCoulter has disabled reputation
Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?

The new leader is described by his family as "Naughty (been done for speeding amongst other gaffes), but nice

His friends say that people underestimate him at their peril in this 15 minute profile of him at the weekend:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001kprv
RichardCoulter is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 18:12.


Server: osmium.zmnt.uk
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.