Britain outside the EU

[Mad Max]

Originally Posted by Chris

Makes a refreshing change. Previously, our net contributions to the EU were used, amongst other things, to incentivise motor manufacturers to set up in Eastern Europe, to our own disadvantage.



35 built/building/planned is an average of 1.2 plants per member state. Which makes 2 in the UK above average.

Nice one.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Chris

35 built/building/planned is an average of 1.2 plants per member state. Which makes 2 in the UK above average.

I guess resorting to comparing the UK to countries the size of Malta, Greece, Estonia, Cyprus, etc. is victory of sorts albeit a Pyrrhic one

Originally Posted by ianch99

I guess resorting to comparing the UK to countries the size of Malta, Greece, Estonia, Cyprus, etc. is victory of sorts albeit a Pyrrhic one

No more pyrrhic than counting 'planned' factories in the EU figure while dismissing the UK's 3rd potential plant as 'barely on the drawing board'.

Around two thirds of total Lithium Ion battery production planned in the entire EU and UK is at material risk of cancellation, or at least significant scaling down, because of a brewing subsidy war with the USA.

https://www.transportenvironment.org...risk-analysis/

The BBC article is wise to caution counting the Northumberland site proposed by Britishvolt as a UK site, but is very much counting chickens that have not hatched (and may never do so) by attributing 35 to the EU.

My point is, you can make statistics say pretty much whatever you want, and someone on the BBC newsdesk this afternoon appears to be doing so.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Chris

No more pyrrhic than counting 'planned' factories in the EU figure while dismissing the UK's 3rd potential plant as 'barely on the drawing board'.

Around two thirds of total Lithium Ion battery production planned in the entire EU and UK is at material risk of cancellation, or at least significant scaling down, because of a brewing subsidy war with the USA.

https://www.transportenvironment.org...risk-analysis/

The BBC article is wise to caution counting the Northumberland site proposed by Britishvolt as a UK site, but is very much counting chickens that have not hatched (and may never do so) by attributing 35 to the EU.

My point is, you can make statistics say pretty much whatever you want, and someone on the BBC newsdesk this afternoon appears to be doing so.

I wasn't counting them, the BBC was. I guess you seem to joining them in making statistics say pretty much whatever you want.

Trying to big up the project you so zealously support is like putting lipstick on a pig. It is a failure as everyone can see apart from those who can still claim the Emperor is really wearing clothes.

Originally Posted by ianch99

I wasn't counting them, the BBC was. I guess you seem to joining them in making statistics say pretty much whatever you want.

Which was exactly my point.

Trying to big up the project you so zealously support is like putting lipstick on a pig. It is a failure as everyone can see apart from those who can still claim the Emperor is really wearing clothes.

I’m not bigging anything up - I’m simply not minded to swallow, uncritically, whatever the ongoing pro-EU information operation is pumping out on any given day. The BBC newsdesk’s reflex is to make a bald numbers comparison that fails to stack up against 60 seconds scrutiny. Yours is to quote it uncritically because it affirms what you already believe to be the case (Kudos to you, though, for dropping it like a hot coal as soon as you saw it didn’t stack up).

We are outside the EU, that isn’t going to change for the foreseeable future, and it is going to take more than 2 or 3 years for it to become clear what the UK’s long-term regulatory environment and economic balance will be as a result of that. Though I guess I understand why obsessing over every development as it arises and insisting on evaluating it through an EU/Brexit lens may be cathartic for some.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Chris

We are outside the EU, that isn’t going to change for the foreseeable future, and it is going to take more than 2 or 3 years for it to become clear what the UK’s long-term regulatory environment and economic balance will be as a result of that.

It's been 3 years since we left the EU so you want 2 or 3 more? Was this on the other side of the Big Red Bus? Jeez ..

I am not going to debate objective reality with you. You can live in your rosy sunlit uplands but the rest of the country has to cope with train wreck this clown show has delivered.

[Mad Max]

Originally Posted by ianch99

It's been 3 years since we left the EU so you want 2 or 3 more? Was this on the other side of the Big Red Bus? Jeez ..

I am not going to debate objective reality with you. You can live in your rosy sunlit uplands but the rest of the country has to cope with train wreck this clown show has delivered.

So are you not happy with a really good contract coming to the UK with the potential of 9000 jobs to go with it?

---------- Post added at 22:02 ---------- Previous post was at 21:01 ----------

Originally Posted by ianch99

I am not happy when you ask such a daft question. With a bung of £800m, we are paying nearly £90k per job. Desperate times ...

Nah, you're the one with the daft reply, the people who will benefit from this are the 9000 who will be given employment, sour grapes from you.

[ianch99]

More happy news:

Brexit food trade barriers have cost UK households £7bn, report finds

British households have paid £7bn since Brexit to cover the extra cost of trade barriers on food imports from the EU, according to researchers at the London School of Economics (LSE).

The university’s latest report estimating the impact of leaving the bloc on UK food prices found that trade barriers were consistently hampering imports, pushing up bills by an average £250.

The cost of food in the UK had rocketed by 25% since 2019, the researchers calculated, but if the post-Brexit trade restrictions were not in place then this increase would be only 17% – nearly a third lower.

Adding up the impact on all British households suggested they had paid an extra £6.95bn as a consequence, they said.

“Between December 2019 and March 2023 food prices rose by almost 25%. This analysis suggests that in the absence of Brexit this figure would be 8 percentage points (30%) lower,” the report found.

Last year, the LSE centre for economic performance said that leaving the EU added an average of £210 to household food bills over the two years to the end of 2021, at a cost of £5.8bn.

The UK has the highest food inflation rate in the industrialised world, according to recent inflation data.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Chris

No more pyrrhic than counting 'planned' factories in the EU figure while dismissing the UK's 3rd potential plant as 'barely on the drawing board'.

Around two thirds of total Lithium Ion battery production planned in the entire EU and UK is at material risk of cancellation, or at least significant scaling down, because of a brewing subsidy war with the USA.

https://www.transportenvironment.org...risk-analysis/

The BBC article is wise to caution counting the Northumberland site proposed by Britishvolt as a UK site, but is very much counting chickens that have not hatched (and may never do so) by attributing 35 to the EU.

My point is, you can make statistics say pretty much whatever you want, and someone on the BBC newsdesk this afternoon appears to be doing so.

Great news that the plant is coming here. Credit to the government for helping make it happen.

I believe France and Germany are leading Europe in battery factories. I read a great article on it but can't put my finger on it. They've got their cheque books out quite a bit to get investment.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by ianch99

It's been 3 years since we left the EU so you want 2 or 3 more? Was this on the other side of the Big Red Bus? Jeez ..

I am not going to debate objective reality with you. You can live in your rosy sunlit uplands but the rest of the country has to cope with train wreck this clown show has delivered.

You are insulting the electorate, old bean, because they voted for Brexit, and for good reason. The 'sunny uplands' were never going to be delivered within a couple of years, because putting the appropriate arrangements in place takes time. But our membership of the Trans-Pacific Partnership, the new contract with 9000 jobs, the review of EU regulations which currently apply to British law, etc are all signs that the pieces are being put into place.

You are not interested in the positive news, only the negatives.

Originally Posted by Paul

When we went to Tenerife, we also had to use the non EU channels, where they quickly "checked" our passports and stamped them (in and out). We did not face 5 hour delays. In fact, by far the longest delay was getting back into the country at the UK border, after we landed, where they insist in using those dreadful automated passport machines that take 10 times longer than a human.

Those stupid slow machines broke down completely today.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65731795

Passengers flying into the UK faced hours of delays at airports across the country where passport e-gates were not working.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

You are insulting the electorate, old bean, because they voted for Brexit, and for good reason. The 'sunny uplands' were never going to be delivered within a couple of years, because putting the appropriate arrangements in place takes time. But our membership of the Trans-Pacific Partnership, the new contract with 9000 jobs, the review of EU regulations which currently apply to British law, etc are all signs that the pieces are being put into place.

You are not interested in the positive news, only the negatives.

I don't remember being told it'd take years for sunlit uplands, I remember being told we hold all the cards and would feel the benefits from day one which is different to the pictures you're now carelessly trying to paint and won't wash with anyone who was even remotely paying attention

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

But our membership of the Trans-Pacific Partnership, the new contract with 9000 jobs, the review of EU regulations which currently apply to British law, etc are all signs that the pieces are being put into place.

Not sure what the factory for Jaguar Land Rover has got to do with our leaving the EU.

As you're probably aware, Brexit is proving more of a deterrent to new businesses coming to the UK.

On May 22, the Chinese Daily Economic reported that BYD is discussing the possibility of building a factory in France with the French government.

On the direct question, a BYD spokesperson told CarNewsChina that the company is studying multiple spots for its first European EV plant. BYD previously confirmed that the UK is ruled out due to Brexit, and the final location should be decided this year.

https://carnewschina.com/2023/05/22/...o-in-the-game/

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

I don't remember being told it'd take years for sunlit uplands, I remember being told we hold all the cards and would feel the benefits from day one which is different to the pictures you're now carelessly trying to paint and won't wash with anyone who was even remotely paying attention

There appears to be a bit of artistic licence going on there, TheDaddy. Anyone with a brain would have known that milking the benefits of Brexit would take time.

We couldn’t even start negotiating trade deals until after we left, and reviewing all those EU laws that we had absorbed within our legislation would be a huge exercise which would take years to implement, so that nonsense spun by remainers who never give up is just that.

---------- Post added at 16:42 ---------- Previous post was at 16:35 ----------

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Not sure what the factory for Jaguar Land Rover has got to do with our leaving the EU.

I mentioned that because all the naysayers were predicting that we wouldn’t get a deal like this post Brexit. They seem to have gone a bit quiet.

The company have assessed Britain as being a more viable option than Spain.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Paul

Those stupid slow machines broke down completely today.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65731795

I’m in Tenerife, arrived yesterday. There was no separate EU/ Non EU. There was an adult and family queues.

The auto machines weren’t working and we just bypassed them straight to the customs guys. Took us all of 15min to get through.