Updated: Boris resigns as party leader

[Mad Max]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/p...shing-27302226

Lol, scraping the bottom of the barrel there, Andrew, a laughable link from a dreadful Scottish rag!

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Depends what you mean by "culture war". If it's built on the Etonians etc who make up a Conservative cabinet (i.e. this one), then that is a political culture worth restraining.

If you mean the diversity side of culture, I'm for protecting British cultural values against the relentless push of one certain other culture.

If you mean the emerging woke culture, which also blends with diversity, whereby they are trying to remove British works of culture from the educational syllabus, then I wish those bar stewards the a fate nearly as bad as the cycle pelotons that are infesting the roads this summer.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

They were ‘leaving’ speeches, not parties, and the police recognised that, which is why he didn’t get a fine for those occasions. So of course he would do it again.

This doesn’t seem to be sinking into your cerebellum very well, ianch. Never mind, you’ll never be alone on this forum!

---------- Post added at 17:16 ---------- Previous post was at 17:02 ----------



Oh, I get it. I also get it that some of the rules are pathetic and stupid and need to be consigned to the history books. If anyone can inject a bit of common sense into the way we do things in this country, he can.

We get in a fluster because Boris wants to introduce steel tariffs because it ‘breaks the law’, and yet EU countries do it all the time with impunity.

Remainiacs complain that the government wants to change the NI protocol, pointing out with relish that it is ‘the deal that Boris signed’. They ignore the fact that the only reason we need to change it is because of remainer sabotage and the obstacles the EU is putting in the way.

All this nonsense must stop. This and the growing woke culture is of huge concern to people who want the best for our country.

---------- Post added at 17:20 ---------- Previous post was at 17:16 ----------



You are only correct on one thing - this is not the Brexit thread. May I delicately point out that you were the one who raised Brexit.

---------- Post added at 17:26 ---------- Previous post was at 17:20 ----------



The deal has been done but it’s not yet been implemented. We haven’t even got rid of the bureaucratic EU rules yet.

With Cakegate declining in the public consciousness, perhaps we can now get on with the real business. You can’t complain about what hasn’t been achieved when these obstacles are continually thrown at Boris to divert attention from the important things.

There you go Sephiroth, using woke as a distraction, pathetic and so easy to see through

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Don't hold your breath on a bonfire of red tape, Old Boy. Business is not queuing up for it.

The Brexit deal has largely been implemented. You seem to be asking for extra time after the ref's blown his whistle. One implementation exception being UK exports to the EU are checked but UK imports from the EU are not. No prizes for guessing that UK exporters feel they are at a disadvantage.

Cakegate was never in the public consciousness, I think you must mean Partygate. That's evolved onto the how-long-will-he-last? question.

Johnson brought Partygate upon himself. Unlike Covid 19 or the invasion of Ukraine.

I'm not really sure I want to see a bonfire of red tape and regulations, I ask myself who do they benefit, it's like when what ever ponce who is currently chancellor says they'll cut tax as a bribe to the electorate and I sit there thinking how does this really benefit me and what will I spend this new found wealth on, aka a fiver, a week/month/year whatever and who does it really benefit, someone on paye earning hundreds of thousands a year would do very well out of it but your little man, not so much and it's with that in mind I look at red tape and regulations, they're for the little mans benefit, I remember saying after the brexit vote when people were saying the employment rules would be ripped up that they wouldn't be only the ones that made it easier to get rid of people or discriminate but even after witnessing that we are still seemingly happy or not paying enough attention for these to be binned to, when will we learn

I'm convinced we won't be maintaining them, the big ones like working time will remain but the ones that make it harder to get rid of people or discriminate will be done away with, I'll put money on it here and now and never forget the contempt large parts of the current government have for British workers, we know this thanks to that crappy book three of them were involved with

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

There you go Sephiroth, using woke as a distraction, pathetic and so easy to see through



I'm not really sure I want to see a bonfire of red tape and regulations, I ask myself who do they benefit, it's like when what ever ponce who is currently chancellor says they'll cut tax as a bribe to the electorate and I sit there thinking how does this really benefit me and what will I spend this new found wealth on, aka a fiver, a week/month/year whatever and who does it really benefit, someone on paye earning hundreds of thousands a year would do very well out of it but your little man, not so much and it's with that in mind I look at red tape and regulations, they're for the little mans benefit, I remember saying after the brexit vote when people were saying the employment rules would be ripped up that they wouldn't be only the ones that made it easier to get rid of people or discriminate but even after witnessing that we are still seemingly happy or not paying enough attention for these to be binned to, when will we learn

Wow, you are that naive you think someone earning hundreds of thousands a year would be on PAYE?

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mad Max

Lol, scraping the bottom of the barrel there, Andrew, a laughable link from a dreadful Scottish rag!

If you prefer a direct link to the source report then do visit https://www.resolutionfoundation.org...he-big-brexit/

---------- Post added at 19:16 ---------- Previous post was at 19:12 ----------

Originally Posted by pip08456

Wow, you are that naive you think someone earning hundreds of thousands a year would be on PAYE?

If they're working for a large company they will be. Plus of course share incentives etc.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

If they're working for a large company they will be. Plus of course share incentives etc.

Stop being naive Andrew, Pip obviously knows how this stuff works

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Stop being naive Andrew, Pip obviously knows how this stuff works

Around £9100 a year is currently the most tax efficient PAYE figure, it's the sweet spot where you pay no tax or NI but you are still earning your old age pension entitlement. You then take the rest in dividends, first £2k tax free, plus you have the difference between the £9100 and the £12570 tax allowance. Up to £50k in dividends is very tax efficient (8.75%), above that and it needs a bit of creative accounting.

So rough figures, a limited company director earning £60k a year is paying less than £5k in tax, plus he's claiming expenses on top. Don't ask me how I know, but I wish I had realised years ago the benefits of taking the plunge and being your own boss.

Not forgetting the £40k into the pension tax free every year.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Very shallow thinking, Ian.

I challenge you to provide proof of the alleged "basic tenet of Conservative philosophy".

I am a Conservative and my views are in line with true Conservative philosophy (which I leave you to research.

It's Boris that's rotten and perhaps one or two of his cronies.

No, you are wrong. The Conservative Party you seem to refer to is long gone. In it's place is one that values only itself and those that fund it. I am old enough to remember the Conservatives you refer to and, trust me, these are not them.

You admire Gove, Raab, Dorries, Mogg, Braverman, Davis, Frost, etc? I thought your judgement was better than this.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by ianch99

No, you are wrong. The Conservative Party you seem to refer to is long gone. In it's place is one that values only itself and those that fund it. I am old enough to remember the Conservatives you refer to and, trust me, these are not them.

You admire Gove, Raab, Dorries, Mogg, Braverman, Davis, Frost, etc? I thought your judgement was better than this.

Nothing wrong with my judgement.

Gove? Muppet .
Raab? Worse particularly as he won't answer a straight question.
Dorries? Sycophant so she can have a cabinet job. Has good policies towards BBC
Braverman? Don't know her faults yet. What's wrong with her?
Davis? Muppet
Frost? Seems OK.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Nothing wrong with my judgement.

Gove? Muppet .
Raab? Worse particularly as he won't answer a straight question.
Dorries? Sycophant so she can have a cabinet job. Has good policies towards BBC
Braverman? Don't know her faults yet. What's wrong with her?
Davis? Muppet
Frost? Seems OK.

Gove. Clever muppet. Credit that he used to have a philosophy and plan and showed leadership in Education...whether you agreed with him or not.
Raab. Agreed.
Dorries. Muppet. There to make the rest of the underperformers look less terrible.
Braverman. Never heard of her.
Davis. Honourable muppet, one of the best on this rather weak list.
Frost. Dishonourable muppet.

---------- Post added at 21:32 ---------- Previous post was at 21:29 ----------

Avert your eyes, Old Boy!

Exclusive: Three Red Wall Conservatives in talks to defect to Labour
Sources say trio believe they will lose seats at the next election if they do not join Sir Keir Starmer’s party.

Labour sources told The Telegraph that the three male Conservatives, first elected in 2019, have entered formal discussions about crossing the floor to join Sir Keir Starmer’s party.

Those familiar with discussions said the MPs had slim majorities in Red Wall areas in the North that have historically voted Labour and believed they would lose their seats at the next election if they did not defect.

It is understood the three have felt dissatisfied with Boris Johnson’s leadership in recent weeks and were pushed towards the decision after a confidence vote in which 148 Tory MPs did not back the Prime Minister.

https://twitter.com/i/events/1541475153346977795

[/quote]

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by ianch99

No, you are wrong. The Conservative Party you seem to refer to is long gone.

I don’t disagree, the problem with the “general” shift in the political parties is that usual centre fight area. Labour have gone crazy left with the culture war stuff, then veered right with the working mans rights and also just failing to understand anyones thoughts outside of the M25. Whereas the Tory’s are just doing their best to squander all the goodwill they were given in 2019.

Labour, I would argue, are still behind - even after all the shit thrown at Boris - I would also argue that the longer Boris resists all that is thrown at him - the more he will gain.

There is, without doubt, a movement to oust Boris. A democratically elected PM ( that in my
opinion should be removed democratically) but his enemies don’t want that test……..I wonder why?

……….where have seen that before? Not a new move…………………

We will see the attack on Boris continue, hopefully he will stay the course, just to annoy people if nothing else.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Pierre

I don’t disagree, the problem with the “general” shift in the political parties is that usual centre fight area. Labour have gone crazy left with the culture war stuff, then veered right with the working mans rights and also just failing to understand anyones thoughts outside of the M25. Whereas the Tory’s are just doing their best to squander all the goodwill they were given in 2019.

Labour, I would argue, are still behind - even after all the shit thrown at Boris - I would also argue that the longer Boris resists all that is thrown at him - the more he will gain.

There is, without doubt, a movement to oust Boris. A democratically elected PM ( that in my
opinion should be removed democratically) but his enemies don’t want that test……..I wonder why?

……….where have seen that before? Not a new move…………………

We will see the attack on Boris continue, hopefully he will stay the course, just to annoy people if nothing else.

I doubt that Starmer would want to start bringing up culture wars for fear of losing his party's growing broad appeal. Culture wars are a weapon favoured by Johnson, reliable pals in the right-wing press and of course shock jocks in need of viewers.

In what way do you define Labour as being behind?

In terms of seats held, yes of course though it looks like they could be getting three more soon! Although I think those MPs should seek re-election if they do defect to Labour.

In terms of polls they're consistently ahead as Johnson is clearly a spent force. Great salesman, orator and writer: Yes. Great Prime Minister: Nothing like, one of the worst.

In terms of Labour having known policies that people can buy into or out of, I agree that they're behind. There comes a time when you need to put your cards on the table and be confident with your hand.

Originally Posted by Pierre

Labour, I would argue, are still behind - even after all the shit thrown at Boris - I would also argue that the longer Boris resists all that is thrown at him - the more he will gain.

At the moment the polls and the results in by-elections suggest a hung Parliament with Labour as the largest party though. That's not because Labour is barnstorming its way back to popularity but because they have recovered from the Corbyn association and because Starmer doesn't scare people from voting Liberal Democrat. The Tories are losing some Red Wall voters back to Labour and some of their traditional seats to the Liberals.

There is, without doubt, a movement to oust Boris. A democratically elected PM ( that in my
opinion should be removed democratically) but his enemies don’t want that test……..I wonder why?

His enemies in the party don't want it because they're worried about losing seats. Labour would want an election now. Why wouldn't they? Be great timing for them.

But it's not undemocratic for a party to depose their Prime Minister. It's happened to so many Prime Ministers. Johnson himself was part of the clique that removed May. Blair had to make way for Brown. Thatcher was booted out as well and so on.

Originally Posted by Damien

At the moment the polls and the results in by-elections suggest a hung Parliament with Labour as the largest party though. That's not because Labour is barnstorming its way back to popularity but because they have recovered from the Corbyn association and because Starmer doesn't scare people from voting Liberal Democrat. The Tories are losing some Red Wall voters back to Labour and some of their traditional seats to the Liberals.



His enemies in the party don't want it because they're worried about losing seats. Labour would want an election now. Why wouldn't they? Be great timing for them.

But it's not undemocratic for a party to depose their Prime Minister. It's happened to so many Prime Ministers. Johnson himself was part of the clique that removed May. Blair had to make way for Brown. Thatcher was booted out as well and so on.

You can’t measure by-election results like that, during Thatchers reign in the mid 80’s, she and her party lost several by-elections, it looked like the Tories were doomed, however, history shows the Conservatives remained in power, right up until 1997.

Labour are unelectable, everything they touch, turns to shit, they can’t even decide that a woman born with a vagina, is an actual woman.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mick

You can’t measure by-election results like that, during Thatchers reign in the mid 80’s, she and her party lost several by-elections, it looked like the Tories were doomed, however, history shows the Conservatives remained in power, right up until 1997.

Labour are unelectable, everything they touch, turns to shit, they can’t even decide that a woman born with a vagina, is an actual woman.

The polls as well as the by-elections show Labour ahead. The only hope for the Conservatives is a change of leadership to someone untainted like Hunt.

Originally Posted by Mick

You can’t measure by-election results like that, during Thatchers reign in the mid 80’s, she and her party lost several by-elections, it looked like the Tories were doomed, however, history shows the Conservatives remained in power, right up until 1997.

Labour are unelectable, everything they touch, turns to shit, they can’t even decide that a woman born with a vagina, is an actual woman.

The Tories and Labour also lost by-elections before they lost in the subsequent General Election.

By-elections are not necessarily indicative of the result of the General Election but they are not a bad barometer of how the public is feeling now. They can't be dismissed out of hand. At the moment, Labour is ahead.

The other problem is the theory that Governments slump mid-term before coming back is based on the idea that they are getting the unpopular measures out of the way first before those measures pay off in time for the General or at least their unpopularity fades over time. This Government is only now heading into a time of high inflation and possibly recession with high living costs. It's hard to see where the turnaround is going to come from.

The advantage the Tories have is that for Starmer to even match a hung Parliament he has to win more seats than any other Labour leader since 1997, such is the damage Corbyn did to the party. The fact we're talking about how him falling short of a majority is possibly a failure is a sign of how badly Johnson has tanked the Tory Party.