Updated: Boris resigns as party leader

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by ianch99

The fact that you endorse the "Greed Is Good" principle to governing the country is disappointing. You also conflate these objectively valid suggestions with the "eventual demise of the democracy": a deliberate overreaction.

None of these would damage democracy, in fact they would do the opposite. Endorsing visible corruption by those in power is the road to the demise of the democracy.

<SNIP>

Have you taken leave of your senses in your rush to smear me as a Conservative?

TheDaddy wrote:

End of monarchy as we see it now, no more lords, no more old school tie, a kind of meritocracy when skill and talent is more important than who your dad knows, where political favours aren't granted because of donations to parties, that type of thing might be nice and where lobbiests don't have much clout either

I replied:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth View Post
Would indeed be nice - but will never happen. The most likely of your suggestions, imo, is the eventual demise of the democracy. The rest of your ideals will remain crushed by the sheer evidence of human nature; once people get their slice of power, they usually want to climb the ladder, lobby people for support, reward their support ...

Never will be squeaky clean - ever.

Kindly retract your (irrelevant) assertion that I endorse "greed is good".

[Dave42]

Originally Posted by Mick

Yeah, I remember corrupt governments. Cash for Honours. Happened under Labour. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cash-for-Honours_scandal

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Enough. You have no business telling others what a disaster is when you, was prepared to accept a Marxist, in no 10, with Corbyn.

i did not want Corbyn never voted for him once just for the record as i said at time the choice was worst in history at last general election i will never want a marxist in no 10

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

It’s not a disaster. It just hasn’t got started yet. Now we have Covid thwarted, you can bet your life everything will start moving now.

Business will not be able to take advantage of the freedoms they were promised until we’ve sorted out the protocol and scrapped all the bureaucratic EU legislation. That’s all coming over the following months.

Additionally, we have some important trade deals to put in place which will also for the first time include services, our biggest earner.

As for prices and the cost of living er - have you seen there’s a war in Ukraine? The internet is full of it, you know!

It's not a disaster but there's plenty of people who wouldn't mind the £500 a year back in their pockets that Brexit has taken from them.

Brexit is more than started, it's been done, albeit a hard Brexit that is messing up the governance of Northern Ireland and reducing investment.

I wish Covid were thwarted, it's more like that we've been able to reduce its impact through vaccinations.

Businesses generally want the freedom to trade with Europe more easily, not the scrapping of legislation that will require two costly sets of standards to be complied with if they want to trade in the UK and the growing Single Market.

Originally Posted by Dave42

i did not want Corbyn never voted for him once just for the record as i said at time the choice was worst in history at last general election i will never want a marxist in no 10

My bad, must have been another Dave, craving for Jezza.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

It's not a disaster but there's plenty of people who wouldn't mind the £500 a year back in their pockets that Brexit has taken from them.

Brexit is more than started, it's been done, albeit a hard Brexit that is messing up the governance of Northern Ireland and reducing investment.

I wish Covid were thwarted, it's more like that we've been able to reduce its impact through vaccinations.

Businesses generally want the freedom to trade with Europe more easily, not the scrapping of legislation that will require two costly sets of standards to be complied with if they want to trade in the UK and the growing Single Market.

There's plenty of people who voted for Brexit that would have given the £4,300 that Osborne said Brexit would cost each family per year.

The rest of what you've said is sensible, of course.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

It's not a disaster but there's plenty of people who wouldn't mind the £500 a year back in their pockets that Brexit has taken from them.

What £500 would that be exactly ?

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

There's plenty of people who voted for Brexit that would have given the £4,300 that Osborne said Brexit would cost each family per year.

The rest of what you've said is sensible, of course.

Did we have a hard brexit? I think not although IMHO we should have done. I seem to recall Parliament voting to prevent a hard brexit.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by pip08456

Did we have a hard brexit? I think not although IMHO we should have done. I seem to recall Parliament voting to prevent a hard brexit.

Well, not that bit pf Andrew's post!

[daveeb]

Originally Posted by Mick

My bad, must have been another Dave, craving for Jezza.

Not this one either, I'd crave for Corbyn in the same way you'd crave toothache.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by pip08456

Did we have a hard brexit? I think not although IMHO we should have done. I seem to recall Parliament voting to prevent a hard brexit.

We did have a hard Brexit. It was a no-deal Brexit that Parliament prevented.

Key elements of a hard Brexit:
It essentially means taking the UK completely out of the EU – including both the single market and the customs union, so it is free from its regulations and tariffs.

https://inews.co.uk/news/brexit/hard...quences-199375

---------- Post added at 16:10 ---------- Previous post was at 15:46 ----------

Originally Posted by Paul

What £500 would that be exactly ?

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/p...shing-27302226

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by ianch99

He literally said, after attending all the parties while the country was locked down, he would do it all again. What don't you get?

They were ‘leaving’ speeches, not parties, and the police recognised that, which is why he didn’t get a fine for those occasions. So of course he would do it again.

This doesn’t seem to be sinking into your cerebellum very well, ianch. Never mind, you’ll never be alone on this forum!

---------- Post added at 17:16 ---------- Previous post was at 17:02 ----------

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

OB apparently does not understand that Boris believes that the rules don't apply to him. Lord Geidt spotted that.

Oh, I get it. I also get it that some of the rules are pathetic and stupid and need to be consigned to the history books. If anyone can inject a bit of common sense into the way we do things in this country, he can.

We get in a fluster because Boris wants to introduce steel tariffs because it ‘breaks the law’, and yet EU countries do it all the time with impunity.

Remainiacs complain that the government wants to change the NI protocol, pointing out with relish that it is ‘the deal that Boris signed’. They ignore the fact that the only reason we need to change it is because of remainer sabotage and the obstacles the EU is putting in the way.

All this nonsense must stop. This and the growing woke culture is of huge concern to people who want the best for our country.

---------- Post added at 17:20 ---------- Previous post was at 17:16 ----------

Originally Posted by Dave42

keep looking for the unicorn OB it sure is a disaster and this is not the brexit thread

You are only correct on one thing - this is not the Brexit thread. May I delicately point out that you were the one who raised Brexit.

---------- Post added at 17:26 ---------- Previous post was at 17:20 ----------

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

It's not a disaster but there's plenty of people who wouldn't mind the £500 a year back in their pockets that Brexit has taken from them.

Brexit is more than started, it's been done, albeit a hard Brexit that is messing up the governance of Northern Ireland and reducing investment.

I wish Covid were thwarted, it's more like that we've been able to reduce its impact through vaccinations.

Businesses generally want the freedom to trade with Europe more easily, not the scrapping of legislation that will require two costly sets of standards to be complied with if they want to trade in the UK and the growing Single Market.

The deal has been done but it’s not yet been implemented. We haven’t even got rid of the bureaucratic EU rules yet.

With Cakegate declining in the public consciousness, perhaps we can now get on with the real business. You can’t complain about what hasn’t been achieved when these obstacles are continually thrown at Boris to divert attention from the important things.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Oh, I get it. I also get it that some of the rules are pathetic and stupid and need to be consigned to the history books. If anyone can inject a bit of common sense into the way we do things in this country, he can.

Old Boy, he made the rules that he then broke. That would seem to be lacking in common sense.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

We get in a fluster because Boris wants to introduce steel tariffs because it ‘breaks the law’, and yet EU countries do it all the time with impunity.

That may or may not be true - you don't supply a link. But two wrongs don't make a right and we don't have as much clout with the WTO as the EU does.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Remainiacs complain that the government wants to change the NI protocol, pointing out with relish that it is ‘the deal that Boris signed’. They ignore the fact that the only reason we need to change it is because of remainer sabotage and the obstacles the EU is putting in the way.

Johnson's received plenty of criticism from all corners on this. If the Protocol is not working, he can invoke Article 16 - that's the exact purpose it's designed for.

Why is he not doing this? Because he just wants a dispute to distract from the waning economy and his equally waning popularity.

What Remainer sabotage do you mean?

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Have you taken leave of your senses in your rush to smear me as a Conservative? Kindly retract your (irrelevant) assertion that I endorse "greed is good".

But you are a Conservative? The "greed is good" mantra is a basic tenet of Conservative philosophy since the 1980's. I don't see the problem here.

If you don't support:

- banker bonus pools measured in billions
- tax cuts for banks in the City
- numbers of high net worth individuals increasing over time
- the availability of myriad non-dom tax loop holes
- payment of political donations in order to procure Government contracts & favours
- increase in CEO & Executive remuneration plus shareholder dividends at the expense of workforce pay rises

then say now. I could go on & on but you get the idea.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by ianch99

But you are a Conservative? The "greed is good" mantra is a basic tenet of Conservative philosophy since the 1980's. I don't see the problem here.

If you don't support:

- banker bonus pools measured in billions
- tax cuts for banks in the City
- numbers of high net worth individuals increasing over time
- the availability of myriad non-dom tax loop holes
- payment of political donations in order to procure Government contracts & favours
- increase in CEO & Executive remuneration plus shareholder dividends at the expense of workforce pay rises

then say now. I could go on & on but you get the idea.

Very shallow thinking, Ian.

I challenge you to provide proof of the alleged "basic tenet of Conservative philosophy".

I am a Conservative and my views are in line with true Conservative philosophy (which I leave you to research.

It's Boris that's rotten and perhaps one or two of his cronies.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

The deal has been done but it’s not yet been implemented. We haven’t even got rid of the bureaucratic EU rules yet.

With Cakegate declining in the public consciousness, perhaps we can now get on with the real business. You can’t complain about what hasn’t been achieved when these obstacles are continually thrown at Boris to divert attention from the important things.

Don't hold your breath on a bonfire of red tape, Old Boy. Business is not queuing up for it.

The Brexit deal has largely been implemented. You seem to be asking for extra time after the ref's blown his whistle. One implementation exception being UK exports to the EU are checked but UK imports from the EU are not. No prizes for guessing that UK exporters feel they are at a disadvantage.

Cakegate was never in the public consciousness, I think you must mean Partygate. That's evolved onto the how-long-will-he-last? question.

Johnson brought Partygate upon himself. Unlike Covid 19 or the invasion of Ukraine.