Russia has invaded Ukraine

Originally Posted by pip08456

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/4...c-6e26d8c3ad9b (paywalled though).

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%...c-6e26d8c3ad9b Paywall removed.

If that's true then I reckon that Russian troops are going to be fighting to the death just in case Ukraine troops think it's a fitting retaliation on their part.

[pip08456]

I note the 12ft link still didn't reveal the full story for some reason. You can view it here.

https://archive.is/2023.06.17-184144...c-6e26d8c3ad9b

It’s getting interesting inside Russia…

https://www.devdiscourse.com/article...-mutiny---tass

R Russia's FSB security service has opened a criminal case against mercenary chief Yevgeny Prigozhin for calling for armed mutiny, the TASS news agency said on Friday, citing the National Antiterrorism Committee.

Prigozhin on Friday accused the Russian military of "destroying" his fighters, without fully explaining his accusation, and vowed to stop the "evil" of the military leadership.

President Vladimir Putin has been briefed on the developments and "necessary measures are being taken", Interfax news agency said, citing Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov.

Can’t see anything specific on TASS, just this non-specific article.

https://tass.com/russia/1637417

MOSCOW, June 23. /TASS/. Russian President Vladimir Putin is aware of the situation that is unfolding around Yevgeny Prigozhin, the founder of the private military company Wagner, and the necessary measures are being taken, Kremlin Spokesman Dmitry Peskov told reporters.

"President Putin has been briefed on all events around Prigozhin. The necessary measures are being taken," he said.

Twitter is full of it this evening - claims the Russian regular army has started shelling Wagner positions and claims Prigozhin has issued a warning that he and his goons are about to march on Moscow to deal with the ‘traitors’ in the MoD.

If this is actually happening, and not the vodka-induced fantasies of Russian Telegram, things are about to get very spicy in Russia indeed.

Originally Posted by Chris

Twitter is full of it this evening - claims the Russian regular army has started shelling Wagner positions and claims Prigozhin has issued a warning that he and his goons are about to march on Moscow to deal with the ‘traitors’ in the MoD.

If this is actually happening, and not the vodka-induced fantasies of Russian Telegram, things are about to get very spicy in Russia indeed.

Lawrence Freedman

Professor Sir Lawrence Freedman is Emeritus Professor of War Studies, King's College London. He was Professor of War Studies from 1982 to 2014 and Vice-Principal from 2003 to 2013.He was educated at Whitley Bay Grammar School and the Universities of Manchester, York and Oxford. Before joining King's he held research appointments at Nuffield College Oxford, the International Institute for Strategic Studies and the Royal Institute of International Affairs. Elected a Fellow of the British Academy in 1995 and awarded the CBE (Commander of the British Empire) in 1996, he was appointed Official Historian of the Falklands Campaign in 1997. In 2003, he was awarded the KCMG (Knight Commander of St Michael and St George). In June 2009 he was appointed to serve as a member of the official inquiry into Britain and the 2003 Iraq War.

He has written on international history, strategic theory and nuclear weapons issues, as well as commenting on current security issues. Among his recent books are Strategy: A History (2013), the Future of War: A History (2017), Ukraine and the Art of Strategy (2019) and, with Jeff Michaels, the 4th edition of The Evolution of Nuclear Strategy (2019). He is currently working on a book on the Politics of Command.

Just posted this on Twitter

A Coup? In Russia? Crazy.

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More seriously though Wagner won't have the strength right?

I read ‘Comment is Freed’ on Substack sometimes. . Only when they post a free entry though.

---------- Post added at 22:43 ---------- Previous post was at 22:42 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

A Coup? In Russia? Crazy.

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More seriously though Wagner won't have the strength right?

25,000 angry, motivated and well trained and led soldiers would be plenty. The regular Russian army is none of those things and, furthermore, a lot of people still don’t realise how badly degraded it has been by the war in Ukraine.

Are they even near Moscow? Looks like they've shut the city down.

What's the best-case scenario here anyway? A long fight between the armed forces in Russia whilst Ukraine push on? I suspect we don't want Wagner anywhere near the Kremlin either.

Originally Posted by Damien

Are they even near Moscow? Looks like they've shut the city down.

What's the best-case scenario here anyway? A long fight between the armed forces in Russia whilst Ukraine push on? I suspect we don't want Wagner anywhere near the Kremlin either.

Twitter chatter has them crossing from occupied Ukraine into Rostov on Don which is at the far east of the Sea of Azov. That’s 670 miles south of Moscow, so they’re not going to be there for breakfast at the Kremlin, but with a number of Russian Telegram channels suggesting the border guards just let them walk back into Russia, despite being ordered to seal the border, it’s possible they could move more freely through the country than you might think. Also remember how easily Ukraine-backed Russian nationalists have been able to maraud around Belgorod region - Russia’s regular military forces are really not in a good shape right now.

[Sephiroth]

Putin might use a tactical nuke or two on the Wagner lot.

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Putin might use a tactical nuke or two on the Wagner lot.

Probably not within his own borders…

The chat in Wagner WAG chat rooms now is that their husbands, lovers and sons have been contacting them over the last 24 hours to say goodbye and ask them to keep an eye on the news. Something really does seem to be happening and it’s planned, not an impulsive thing.

You would have to assume Prigozhin is aware of the possibility of Putin dropping a nuke on him and has either taken precautions (force dispersal until they’re close enough to Moscow) or doesn’t rate it as very likely.

At this point the only way it could be worse for Putin is if he was announced as the new CEO of Everton.

@donaeldunready

---------- Post added at 23:09 ---------- Previous post was at 23:08 ----------

Originally Posted by Chris

The chat in Wagner WAG chat rooms now is that their husbands, lovers and sons have been contacting them over the last 24 hours to say goodbye and ask them to keep an eye on the news. Something really does seem to be happening and it’s planned, not an impulsive thing.

You would have to assume Prigozhin is aware of the possibility of Putin dropping a nuke on him and has either taken precautions (force dispersal until they’re close enough to Moscow) or doesn’t rate it as very likely.

Or…

He (or whoever is backing him) already has people there…

Wagner forces need to be careful…



There are a lot of speed cameras on the road to Mockba…

[Dave42]

be interesting to see if Putin loses any of his close supporters with this