Updated: Boris resigns as party leader

[ianch99]

Watched some of the BBCQT from true blue Dorking and most of the audience replies were savage. The Tories are unravelling in front of our eyes. They just don't get the mood of the average "honest" Tory voter.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Watched some of the BBCQT from true blue Dorking and most of the audience replies were savage. The Tories are unravelling in front of our eyes. They just don't get the mood of the average "honest" Tory voter.

I too watched QT last night. My impression was that the audience anger was directed at Boris. The Tory party is only "unravelling" in the eyes of its sworn opponents; truth is, the party is going through a turbulent period that will sort itself out one way or another.

But, a couple of questions:

1. Would you regard me as an "honest" Tory voter? (I am a Tory voter).

2. Why did you place the word "honest" into quote marks?

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

I too watched QT last night. My impression was that the audience anger was directed at Boris. The Tory party is only "unravelling" in the eyes of its sworn opponents; truth is, the party is going through a turbulent period that will sort itself out one way or another.

But, a couple of questions:

1. Would you regard me as an "honest" Tory voter? (I am a Tory voter).

2. Why did you place the word "honest" into quote marks?

Q1: yes, definitely. You are one of the few Tory supporters here who will tell it how it really is although not totally

Q2: why quotes? Well there are Tory voters who claim that their votes and their support is in the best interests of the country when the reality before them can never objectively justify that position.

Why the Tory party and not just Johnson unravelling? The answer is that the contamination from his DNA and legacy is now too far gone to be rolled back. Remember we govern by Cabinet consensus plus not all the deplorable decisions have been just his. The laws that have passed that erode our civil liberties and democracy have been voted through by the Party, not Johnson.

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

[COLOR="Blue"]I too watched QT last night. My impression was that the audience anger was directed at Boris. The Tory party is only "unravelling" in the eyes of its sworn opponents; truth is, the party is going through a turbulent period that will sort itself out one way or another.

Johnson is certainly getting the worst of it but the longer he stays as leader the longer it damages the wider Tory 'brand' I think.

The worst thing for them is most of this is self-inflicted. The Owen Paterson scandal and the Partygate ones aren't even poor political decisions - such as Brown's 10p tax rate - but extracurricular shenanigans they didn't need to do at all.

What should worry the Tories is that there are more structural problems coming they can't address simply by dumping their leader. The full political impact of inflation, the cost of living and what looks to be very low growth are only beginning to be felt and will get worst over the next 12 months. NHS waiting times are also projected to increase for the next few years. For all the talk of scandal, it will pass, and people will simply have lower trust in Johnson overall. What people will vote on is their incomes, their expenses and if they're in poor health and have to wait months for an NHS appointment.

[tweetiepooh]

Maybe the situation is getting to the point that we need a sort of "war footing" coalition government so the politicos stop their silly point scoring and work together to solve what looks like a really hard time coming.

[BenMcr]

Originally Posted by tweetiepooh

Maybe the situation is getting to the point that we need a sort of "war footing" coalition government so the politicos stop their silly point scoring and work together to solve what looks like a really hard time coming.

Unfortunately I think in our current political landscape everyone are so far apart from either other for it work.

I thought the Con / Lib-Dem one worked for a good part because Cameron and Clegg got on. Johnson and Starmer definitely do not, nor could I see the rest of either front bench for the most part.

[tweetiepooh]

Plus even if the politicians did get together and come up with a brilliant and workable plan the civil servants who would implement it would likely mess it up by creating a "committee for the implementation of the brilliant and workable plan" who would suck up all the resource and time.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by BenMcr

Unfortunately I think in our current political landscape everyone are so far apart from either other for it work.

I thought the Con / Lib-Dem one worked for a good part because Cameron and Clegg got on. Johnson and Starmer definitely do not, nor could I see the rest of either front bench for the most part.

This Government was elected on the back of stoking division - why waste a winning formula when you haven't even fully played the culture war cards.

Originally Posted by tweetiepooh

Maybe the situation is getting to the point that we need a sort of "war footing" coalition government so the politicos stop their silly point scoring and work together to solve what looks like a really hard time coming.

Originally Posted by tweetiepooh

Plus even if the politicians did get together and come up with a brilliant and workable plan the civil servants who would implement it would likely mess it up by creating a "committee for the implementation of the brilliant and workable plan" who would suck up all the resource and time.

Originally Posted by tweetiepooh

Maybe the situation is getting to the point that we need a sort of "war footing" coalition government so the politicos stop their silly point scoring and work together to solve what looks like a really hard time coming.

Nah. We're meant to have an opposition and it's healthy. This Government has a sizable majority so it's not as if it's unable to do anything. A National Government ala WW2 should only be considered during an extreme crisis when there is an existential threat to our existence as a country.

These are challenging economic times and the opposition should be there to question if the Government are handling it correctly, challenge them on the decisions they're making, speak out for those who are impacted the most and so on. If you have a national government representative of Parliament then who in Parliament holds them to account?

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by tweetiepooh

Maybe the situation is getting to the point that we need a sort of "war footing" coalition government so the politicos stop their silly point scoring and work together to solve what looks like a really hard time coming.

The problem with that is obtaining agreement among the parties as to what is the basis for the "war footing". You and I know what's wrong, but even we would be hard pressed to define this in terms of "war footing" not to mention how this would actually resolve/solve matters.

---------- Post added at 15:22 ---------- Previous post was at 14:44 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

Johnson is certainly getting the worst of it but the longer he stays as leader the longer it damages the wider Tory 'brand' I think.

The worst thing for them is most of this is self-inflicted. The Owen Paterson scandal and the Partygate ones aren't even poor political decisions - such as Brown's 10p tax rate - but extracurricular shenanigans they didn't need to do at all.

What should worry the Tories is that there are more structural problems coming they can't address simply by dumping their leader. The full political impact of inflation, the cost of living and what looks to be very low growth are only beginning to be felt and will get worst over the next 12 months. NHS waiting times are also projected to increase for the next few years. For all the talk of scandal, it will pass, and people will simply have lower trust in Johnson overall. What people will vote on is their incomes, their expenses and if they're in poor health and have to wait months for an NHS appointment.

Yes, the Conservative brand is becoming contaminated by Boris and his cabinet cronies.

I got this email from Boris after he got away with his career:

Dear xxxxxxxx,


I am writing to thank you for your support and set out my plan for how we can move forward together as one united party.

We have drawn a line under weeks of media speculation and are determined to take this country forward. And David, as a valued Conservative Party member, you have a vital role.

We can move on from the issues our opponents want us to talk about – and renew our focus on what matters – delivering on the people’s priorities.

We’ve already achieved so much together as a Conservative Party – and there’s so much more to do.

We got Brexit Done – and now we need to grasp its benefits and make Britain the best place in the world to do business.

As economies struggle with the impact of Putin’s illegal war and energy price spikes, we are committing £37 billion worth of cost of living support.

And now we need to grow our economy, creating the conditions for even more high-wage, high-skill jobs, to help address the cost of living.

We took the decision to be the first European country to help Ukraine protect itself against an appalling and illegal invasion by Russia – and we will continue to lead the way in our coordinated international response.

And we are fixing long term issues. From tackling social care to our economic and migration partnership with Rwanda, we Conservatives can be trusted to deliver.

It is our responsibility to continue on this path of delivery – by levelling up and unleashing the potential of every corner of the UK. From transport to childcare to energy to housing – we will drive reform that will benefit families up and down the country.

That is our vision: of a strong and prosperous United Kingdom, with our beloved Union protected and supported, projecting the best of British values around the world.

I am absolutely confident that this Conservative Government, together with your support as a member of our party, will deliver for the country we love.

To call it "content free" would insult all other documents that were content free!

I've highlighted just one paragraph - "the people's priorities". Very close to the top, if not at the top are:

1. Restoration of face-to-face doctor's appointments - at least next day;

2. Proper relief from the cost-of-living crisis - like temporary removal of VAT from fuel prices. The mentioned £37 billion says nothing as to its adequacy (which it won't be).

3. Self-sufficiency on power and food (so far as is possible) instead of the stupid "wilding" policy and not joining up power generation with electric cars (never mind the Victorian terraced streets).

By all means support Ukraine, but do not hold it up as a Conservative triumph; do not claim to be anywhere near fixing social care.

By now, the levelling up policy should have been formed and its basis announced. It's pie in the sky, along with Housing Benefit paying for the right-to-buy mortgage!

Jeez.

[Mr K]

There was an interesting documentary on BBC2 last night about Bradford. Ask them about 'Leveling up'. The amount people suffering ill health through air pollution is disgraceful in 2022. And the one thing that could help, a decent rail link, the Tories promised has no been cancelled. New underground line for London though....

The red wall has disintegrated as they'll find out in the Wakefield by election. Never mind Scotland leaving the UK, the North of England might decide to too.

[Itshim]

Originally Posted by Mr K

There was an interesting documentary on BBC2 last night about Bradford. Ask them about 'Leveling up'. The amount people suffering ill health through air pollution is disgraceful in 2022. And the one thing that could help, a decent rail link, the Tories promised has no been cancelled. New underground line for London though....

The red wall has disintegrated as they'll find out in the Wakefield by election. Never mind Scotland leaving the UK, the North of England might decide to too.

I would be surprised if the governing party didn't lose mid term , that's the nature of the beast. Question to Labour supporters , if you think bj is so bad a vote loser ,why would you want him to go , guessing you would think he would be replaced with someone better for the country ,hence more likely to win the next general election,. This is not a defence of Him just puzzled by the thinking hole and digging comes to mind as far as BJ is concerned .

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Itshim

I would be surprised if the governing party didn't lose mid term , that's the nature of the beast. Question to Labour supporters , if you think bj is so bad a vote loser ,why would you want him to go , guessing you would think he would be replaced with someone better for the country ,hence more likely to win the next general election,. This is not a defence of Him just puzzled by the thinking hole and digging comes to mind as far as BJ is concerned .

Tbh , politically, as the opposition, you'd want him to stay. But the price is too high , God knows what state the country will be in with 2 more years of the lying muppet, promising everything and delivering nothing.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Dave42

but of course the biggest liar in uk as never done anything wrong once according to you OB and how many time did he change his story about all the parties they had

Well, he’s only received a fine for a cake ambush between meetings. Go figure.

---------- Post added at 20:31 ---------- Previous post was at 20:29 ----------

Originally Posted by ianch99

Watched some of the BBCQT from true blue Dorking and most of the audience replies were savage. The Tories are unravelling in front of our eyes. They just don't get the mood of the average "honest" Tory voter.

OMG! BBCQT! I’d love to hear your definition of objective!

---------- Post added at 20:36 ---------- Previous post was at 20:31 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

Quote:
Originally Posted by tweetiepooh
Maybe the situation is getting to the point that we need a sort of "war footing" coalition government so the politicos stop their silly point scoring and work together to solve what looks like a really hard time coming.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tweetiepooh View Post
Plus even if the politicians did get together and come up with a brilliant and workable plan the civil servants who would implement it would likely mess it up by creating a "committee for the implementation of the brilliant and workable plan" who would suck up all the resource and time.

Your point being…?

---------- Post added at 20:45 ---------- Previous post was at 20:36 ----------

Originally Posted by jfman

This Government was elected on the back of stoking division - why waste a winning formula when you haven't even fully played the culture war cards.

Actually, this government was elected on the basis that it was the only government that would actually deliver what they wanted (ie Brexit).

Now, you may personally think that Brexit is not the right course for this country, but it was the democratic decision. You need to swallow that.

---------- Post added at 20:52 ---------- Previous post was at 20:45 ----------

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

The problem with that is obtaining agreement among the parties as to what is the basis for the "war footing". You and I know what's wrong, but even we would be hard pressed to define this in terms of "war footing" not to mention how this would actually resolve/solve matters.

---------- Post added at 15:22 ---------- Previous post was at 14:44 ----------


Yes, the Conservative brand is becoming contaminated by Boris and his cabinet cronies.

I got this email from Boris after he got away with his career:



To call it "content free" would insult all other documents that were content free!

I've highlighted just one paragraph - "the people's priorities". Very close to the top, if not at the top are:

1. Restoration of face-to-face doctor's appointments - at least next day;

2. Proper relief from the cost-of-living crisis - like temporary removal of VAT from fuel prices. The mentioned £37 billion says nothing as to its adequacy (which it won't be).

3. Self-sufficiency on power and food (so far as is possible) instead of the stupid "wilding" policy and not joining up power generation with electric cars (never mind the Victorian terraced streets).

By all means support Ukraine, but do not hold it up as a Conservative triumph; do not claim to be anywhere near fixing social care.

By now, the levelling up policy should have been formed and its basis announced. It's pie in the sky, along with Housing Benefit paying for the right-to-buy mortgage!

Jeez.

This is getting silly now. You completely ignore the dreadful situation we have faced with Covid and the Ukraine situation. You can see the problem, so please, just acknowledge it! Clear that blind spot.

The manifesto was delayed for legitimate reasons. Judge Boris when his time is up, and bear in mind the problems he has been up against.

The manifesto is now being relaunched, so be patient.