Russia has invaded Ukraine

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by Mick

Latest UK Intel:

The Russian embassy in London tried to justify the Ukrainian invasion on twitter.
Here's the Ukrainian reply (not a tweet but possibly at the UN). Priceless!

https://twitter.com/benjaminbutter/s...77580496855041

On another note, there is this street outside the Russian embassy in the US.(it may not be real but funny)

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b2030000.html

Originally Posted by Pierre

I’ve repeated it several times in just the last few hours……..(and several days ago I might add)

He is either replaced (unlikely)

Or there is a negotiated settlement between Ukraine and Russia, along the lines of the terms (unknown if that is fake or not) recently posted or something resembling them.

---------- Post added at 23:38 ---------- Previous post was at 23:37 ----------



Him not coming out of this looking like he has won…….is pushing him.

Appeasement has a history of ending badly…

He’d probably want East Germany back in his sphere of influence, after being appeased with all the other ex-Comecon countries…

Originally Posted by Hugh

Appeasement has a history of ending badly…

He’d probably want East Germany back in his sphere of influence, after being appeased with all the other ex-Comecon countries…

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

you acknowledge that the UK should take in more refugees from Ukraine and I don't call that putting our country down.

I don't disagree that any Ukrainians that have family and support here, should come here, and also those that just want to come here, but it's a fact explained by many aid agencies that refugees would rather be close to their country.

So we should also be ensuring that we are supporting Poland and other closer countries taking in refugees.

Shell sorry for buying Russian oil and to cut ties

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60661611

Shell has announced it is set to shut its petrol stations in Russia and will stop all spot purchases of oil from the country amid the invasion of Ukraine.

The energy giant said it intends to withdraw from its involvement in all Russian energy, including gas, crude oil and and petrol products.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Pierre

I don't disagree that any Ukrainians that have family and support here, should come here, and also those that just want to come here, but it's a fact explained by many aid agencies that refugees would rather be close to their country.

So we should also be ensuring that we are supporting Poland and other closer countries taking in refugees.

They also say that living in a country where they can understand the language is important and English is the third most known language in Ukraine. (Though I I'm sure Polish must be understood closer to the western border.)

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Appeasement has a history of ending badly…

Well we should have thought about that in 2014, shouldn't we?

He’d probably want East Germany back in his sphere of influence, after being appeased with all the other ex-Comecon countries…

If he wanted to properly start WW3 he could try but he wouldn't, for the same reasons we are not putting troops into Ukraine, or operating a no fly zone.

A negotiated peace is not necessarily "appeasement", if it stops the killing.

Or are you all for full out war to the end, keep fighting until either Russia is defeated (very unlikely)? Or the Ukraine is flattened (very likely)

Then again it's not your blood being spilt is it?

This is not 1938, the consequences for the West getting involved is the possible annihilation of the planet.

And what’s to stop him continuing with further invasions?

If this one gets him what he wants, he’ll just continue- why stop a winning streak?

No need for the ad-hominem attacks - I haven’t said anything negative about you seeming to want him to get away with his invasion and killing of innocent civilians.

I know exactly what’s involved - I served in the middle of East Germany during the height of the Cold War.

[RichardCoulter]

Someone made an interesting point in a discussion this morning in that, if Putin gets away with these invasions, absolutely nowhere is safe.

If Scotland were to gain independence, it would no longer be in NATO and would have no nuclear deterrent...

---------- Post added at 12:17 ---------- Previous post was at 12:15 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

Shell sorry for buying Russian oil and to cut ties

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60661611

Excellent news, though I suspect that the increased boycotting of their petrol stations had a lot to do with this.

[Carth]

It seems a majority - Twitter, Farcebook, Experts etc - agree that if Putin gets away with the Ukraine invasion, then nowhere is safe.

Well we have two choices then don't we:

(A) Stay clear and see how things go

(B) Jump in and see how it goes.

actually no, we don't have a choice, because if Putin is (allegedly) going to eventually invade everywhere that was initially Russia, or places where he feels threatened by NATO, someone somewhere will decide enough is enough and WW3 will happen . . . same as if we jump in

[RichardCoulter]

I agree. If something isn't sorted out soon, it's beginning to look like do we do it now or later. If only someone could get to Putin, this could be avoided.

Their new leader could (hopefully) take over with a completely different attitude. Often when two business leaders take a particular stance, disputes are only resolved when one or both are no longer in post and it's the same with politics.

Without wishing to be disparaging about this serious situation, the Sky basic channel dispute with Virgin was only resolved years after by this happening.

BREAKING: Ukraine President Zelenskyy, will give an historical address to UK MPs in the House of Commons at 5pm today, live via video feed. He is expected to raise more demands for a no fly zone over Ukraine and additional military weapons.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Hugh

And what’s to stop him continuing with further invasions?

Well this one hasn't exactly gone to plan has it?

If this one gets him what he wants, he’ll just continue- why stop a winning streak?

It's not a win though is it. If those demands issued were fact, they were just some one looking for way out.

His objective was to take over Ukraine depose Zelensky and install a puppet regime loyal to Russia. Those demands were much much less than that.

The only demand over what he already had was guarantees the Ukraine won't join the EU or NATO - and they can easily be accommodated and circumnavigated so as not to penalise Ukraine.

No need for the ad-hominem attacks - I haven’t said anything negative about you seeming to want him to get away with his invasion and killing of innocent civilians.

Alright, I apologise, but neither do I see the need for the war to continue to an end that could be months even years away, and the associated body count.

I know exactly what’s involved - I served in the middle of East Germany during the height of the Cold War.

Well the height of the cold war would have been around Oct 25th 1962 when the two superpowers were closest to launching against each other - but I know what you mean.

If this continues, with an unhinged man with the power to launch feeling that only option to save face is to launch ...well it doesn't need explaining does it?

That's why this needs to end soon.

[RichardCoulter]

If the claims are correct that Putins own Armed forces are unhappy with the situation, I wonder if there will be a military coup? Would this be any better though??

Originally Posted by Pierre

W
Well the height of the cold war would have been around Oct 25th 1962 when the two superpowers were closest to launching against each other - but I know what you mean. .

Things actually got pretty dicey late in 1983 as well, though that’s not so widely known.

https://www.theatlantic.com/internat...hought/276290/