Hamas Israel War

Originally Posted by jfman

This was evident from October 8th. I’ve said it before and will again, the first few pages of this thread age extremely badly. Nobody doubts the horrors of October 7th however judgement was very significantly impaired throughout.

Originally Posted by jfman

Likewise the “Israel has the right to defend itself… something something… (justify war crimes)” brigade.

Indeed. The thread was less than 4 hours and 10 posts old when you weighed in with your first ‘yeah but Israeli war crimes’.

I suspect Whitaboot is your middle name.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Chris

Indeed. The thread was less than 4 hours and 10 posts old when you weighed in with your first ‘yeah but Israeli war crimes’.

I suspect Whitaboot is your middle name.

And I addressed that then - Israeli war crimes are absolutely a catalyst for retaliatory action. The next couple of decades will almost certainly see the current victims of Israeli aggression and their families rise up, with no shortage of sympathetic money flowing from around the Middle East and further afield.

Nobody can feign surprise when it does, and the first page of that thread will inevitably look back on Israel’s potential war crimes as they destroy Palestinian lives up and down Gaza. There’s no reason for Palestinians to respect an Israeli state hell bent on destroying their very existence.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by jfman

There’s no reason for Palestinians to respect an Israeli state hell bent on destroying their very existence.

and Vice Versa.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Pierre

and Vice Versa.

There’s no evidence that the vast majority of Palestinians want to do anything other than live peacefully on their own land. It’s a nice piece of Zionist rhetoric to claim otherwise, as it makes it easier to dehumanise Palestinians.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by jfman

There’s no evidence that the vast majority of Palestinians want to do anything other than live peacefully on their own land. It’s a nice piece of Zionist rhetoric to claim otherwise, as it makes it easier to dehumanise Palestinians.

Israelis want to live peacefully in their sovereign country.

Albeit surrounded on all sides by those that want them erased.

Palestinians have had Gaza to themselves to nearly two decades, they could have turned it into a Mediterranean Dubai in that time.

Anyway, it’s all been said before, all arguments, from all sides, round and round we go.

The only difference this time is Israel is going to finish what Hamas started on Oct 7th. I would have hoped Israel may have started to take things on a different course by now. But I’m not Israeli and they’ll do what they believe they need to do.

It’s not as though we’re admonishing Ukraine for defending their right to exist, are we?

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Israelis want to live peacefully in their sovereign country.

Albeit surrounded on all sides by those that want them erased.

Palestinians have had Gaza to themselves to nearly two decades, they could have turned it into a Mediterranean Dubai in that time.

Anyway, it’s all been said before, all arguments, from all sides, round and round we go.

The only difference this time is Israel is going to finish what Hamas started on Oct 7th. I would have hoped Israel may have started to take things on a different course by now. But I’m not Israeli and they’ll do what they believe they need to do.

It’s not as though we’re admonishing Ukraine for defending their right to exist, are we?

Israel, as an occupying force, absolutely wouldn't have allowed economic development in Gaza to reach that of Dubai. Anyone claiming as such is a fantasist at best or deluded at worst.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by jfman

Israel, as an occupying force

Israel isn’t an occupying force, to say so shows an historical ignorance.

But even if I was to take that comment at face value, Gaza was not occupied, in fact Israeli families were forcibly removed from Gaza in order to give the territory wholly to Palestinians.

absolutely wouldn't have allowed economic development in Gaza to reach that of Dubai. Anyone claiming as such is a fantasist at best or deluded at worst.

You don’t know that, that statement purely the result of your own mind and no one else’s.

Anyway there’s no real point is continuing down this avenue as you’re entrenched in your stance and I am comfortable with my position.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Israel isn’t an occupying force, to say so shows an historical ignorance.

But even if I was to take that comment at face value, Gaza was not occupied, in fact Israeli families were forcibly removed from Gaza in order to give the territory wholly to Palestinians.

You don’t know that, that statement purely the result of your own mind and no one else’s.

Anyway there’s no real point is continuing down this avenue as you’re entrenched in your stance and I am comfortable with my position.

Israel are absolutely an occupying force. I can't substantively engage with points that start from such an egregious falsehood.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by jfman

Israel are absolutely an occupying force.

As I say, ignorance of history, but I suppose they hope that if enough people keep on saying it, it will become common parlance. Keep chanting the chants and ignoring the facts.

I can't substantively engage with points that start from such an egregious falsehood.

Probably best you don’t then.

Originally Posted by jfman

Israel are absolutely an occupying force. I can't substantively engage with points that start from such an egregious falsehood.

Best you dont engage at all then. I doubt anyone takes you seriously by now anyway, you've made your hatred of anything related to Israel more than clear. I've said it multiple times, nothing you post makes me think any different, you should still apply for that post as Hamas spokesman.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Paul

Best you dont engage at all then. I doubt anyone takes you seriously by now anyway, you've made your hatred of anything related to Israel more than clear. I've said it multiple times, nothing you post makes me think any different, you should still apply for that post as Hamas spokesman.

I’ve never posted a single statement driven by “hatred” of Israel and you’ll not be able to find one and quote it back to me if you trawl the entire thread.

I’m completely indifferent to whether or not any forum member changes their mind as a result of posts made in this thread or any other.

Believing Palestinians have the same human rights as anyone else isn’t “hatred” of Israel.

---------- Post added at 10:16 ---------- Previous post was at 10:13 ----------

Originally Posted by Pierre

As I say, ignorance of history, but I suppose they hope that if enough people keep on saying it, it will become common parlance. Keep chanting the chants and ignoring the facts.

Probably best you don’t then.

For someone that substantially believes the history of the conflict started on October 7th, and no events prior to this have merit for discussion, claiming anyone else has an ignorance of history is outstanding.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by jfman

Believing Palestinians have the same human rights as anyone else isn’t “hatred” of Israel.

I think this is the essential point, Some people who support what Israel is doing actually do disagree with this. I know that a number of Israel government ministers disagree together with a disturbing number of Israelis citizens.

If you think that the Arabs do not deserve the same rights, freedoms, etc. as yourself then you can rationalise what do you are allowed to do to them and how you do it. If you then add the toxic narrative that since they voted in Hamas and did not rid themselves of these Islamists, Gazans deserve the consequences of the ongoing conflict. Sort of summed up by: "If they die, then they die". There is a enormous historical irony here.

Originally Posted by jfman

For someone that substantially believes the history of the conflict started on October 7th, and no events prior to this have merit for discussion, claiming anyone else has an ignorance of history is outstanding.

So true

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by ianch99

So true

How so?

[ianch99]

This is going to be interesting:

UN Security Council resolution calls for Gaza ceasefire

The UN Security Council has passed a resolution calling for an "immediate ceasefire" in Gaza, after the US refrained from vetoing the measure in a change from its previous position.

The text also demands the immediate and unconditional release of all hostages.

The Security Council had been at an impasse since the war began in October, failing to agree on a ceasefire call.

The move by the US signals growing divergence between it and its ally Israel over Israel's offensive in Gaza.

Bibi will throw his toys out of the pram I suspect ...

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by ianch99

This is going to be interesting:

UN Security Council resolution calls for Gaza ceasefire



Bibi will throw his toys out of the pram I suspect ...

No he won't, he doesn't care what the UN say, he has a war to win.

Do you think Hamas will do what the UN says?