Britain outside the EU

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

The BTGA members stopped producing hot-house tomatoes because of the heating costs and the refusal of UK supermarkets to pay the higher price.

The BTGA seems to me to have been economic with the truth.

Capitalism, innit?

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

You haven't thought this through properly, have you? You go straight for Brexit with no proof whatsoever.

Spain/Morocco suffer a production shortage of, say, tomatoes. So, up goes the price and the highest bidder gets the goods.

The supermarkets then turn to UK sources of tomatoes; but their costs have risen and many will have stopped producing such products. The supermarkets then turn to Spain/Morocco, who have already sold their tomatoes to the higher bidders.

Hence shortage.

Because there has been no previous supply issue, Brexit cannot have any role in the shortage of tomatoes.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...t-import-rules

But Alfonso Gálvez, who serves as general secretary of the Murcia branch of Asaja, Spain’s biggest farming association, said he was puzzled by the media talk of weather-induced shortages.

“I’ve seen these articles but I don’t understand why they’re talking about shortages here,” he said. “Things are normal so far this season so I don’t know if it’s more a problem of UK logistics since the Brexit regulations came into effect. There’s enough produce to supply the market and the vegetable season is happening pretty normally.”

While he acknowledged that rising costs had seen a drop in production for some growers, and that frosts had affected some artichoke and lettuce crops, Gálvez said those issues were not serious or widespread enough to have significantly reduced market supplies.

The current UK shortages, he suggested, may have more to do with bureaucracy and logistics than the weather.

“The sector adapted to the new [post-Brexit] export protocols set by the UK in coordination with the different ministries that are responsible,” he said. “But there have been logistics and transport problems when it comes to export, such as a shortage of lorry drivers to service the UK market, and the problems we’ve seen with the queues to get into the country through Eurotunnel.”

That, Gálvez added, may have led some export companies or co-operatives to focus more on the continental market than the UK market.

“On top of that, you’ve got the costs of all this bureaucracy and all these waits, which mean that perhaps the UK market isn’t so attractive,” he said.

[jonbxx]

It will be fun from the end of this year when more paperwork will be required for imports of food products from the EU;

FROM END OF 2023
Export Certificates (health & catch)
Products of animal origin
High risk food and feed not of animal origin
Animal by-products
Certificate of inspection needed for organic food

Phytosanitary Certificates
For regulated plants and plant products

IPAFFS/PEACH Pre-Notification
IPAFFS for animals and animal products
PEACH for plants

Entry through Border Control Post (BCP)
Expected for

live animals
regulated plants/plant products
high risk plants and plant products
products of animal origin
animal by products
high risk food and feed not of animal origin
germinal products

Checks
Expected for

live animals
regulated plants/plant products
high risk plants and plant products
products of animal origin
animal by products
high risk food and feed not of animal origin
germinal products

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by jonbxx

It will be fun from the end of this year when more paperwork will be required for imports of food products from the EU;

I wonder if they'll roll them over for another year?

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I wonder if they'll roll them over for another year?

Wasn't this fiasco supposed to cut down on red tape and I wonder what excuse will be dreamed up at the end of year to excuse the car crash, might be better if they don't try tbh, just accept it for what it is, this is the price we pay, same as with our now open door asylum policy

[ianch99]

What is important here is not to listen to the binary cause specialists. "A problem is either caused by Brexit or it is not". Of course, you will get the zealots jumping on statements like "We have no fruit because of Brexit" but you would have to be naïve or a fool to be gas lit by their responses.

It may be a big shock but the world is more complex that this binary, cartoon-like representation. Most things that are happening to this country will have a Brexit contribution, the only discussion is how impactful this contribution is. For this situation, here's a well balanced perspective:

https://www.euronews.com/green/2023/...able-shortages

Where does Brexit come into all this?

Contrary to some of the reaction on social media, Brexit has a minimal role to play in the immediate shortage, according to experts.

For example, the British Growers Association says one of the big issues arising from Brexit for the fresh produce sector - attracting workers from EU countries - has been mitigated by the Seasonal Workers Permit Scheme.

“It is more about being able to get back the investment the growers need to make in planting crops and that's where the system has fallen down rather than Brexit,” he added.

The location of the UK and its isolation from mainland Europe, however, has played a significant part and is the differentiator from the situation in EU countries without shortages of fruit and vegetables.

“It is less costly for a supplier to supply to the Netherlands and other countries in the northern part, because they don't have these 25 miles of the English Channel to negotiate because that adds a cost,” said Chris White of Fruit Net.

Navigating extra Brexit-imposed cost and bureaucracy of getting the fresh fruit and vegetables across the Channel is clearly proving too costly for some producers, which is why tomatoes are reaching supermarkets in France, Belgium or the Netherlands but not Britain.

And according to media reports Irish supermarkets have also reported depleted stocks of tomatoes and fresh produce, just like in the UK - but while geography (and related costs) will be a factor there, Brexit won't be

It is the highlighted part that is important here: our decision to isolate ourselves, in trading terms, means that suppliers will naturally choose easier markets to deliver to if they can .. this seems to the case here. Had we still been in the EU, we would be getting more supplies. Sort of obvious really.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by ianch99

What is important here is not to listen to the binary cause specialists. "A problem is either caused by Brexit or it is not". Of course, you will get the zealots jumping on statements like "We have no fruit because of Brexit" but you would have to be naïve or a fool to be gas lit by their responses.

It may be a big shock but the world is more complex that this binary, cartoon-like representation. Most things that are happening to this country will have a Brexit contribution, the only discussion is how impactful this contribution is. For this situation, here's a well balanced perspective:

https://www.euronews.com/green/2023/...able-shortages



It is the highlighted part that is important here: our decision to isolate ourselves, in trading terms, means that suppliers will naturally choose easier markets to deliver to if they can .. this seems to the case here. Had we still been in the EU, we would be getting more supplies. Sort of obvious really.

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

You haven't thought this through properly, have you? You go straight for Brexit with no proof whatsoever.

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by ianch99

What is important here is not to listen to the binary cause specialists. "A problem is either caused by Brexit or it is not". Of course, you will get the zealots jumping on statements like "We have no fruit because of Brexit" but you would have to be naïve or a fool to be gas lit by their responses.

It may be a big shock but the world is more complex that this binary, cartoon-like representation. Most things that are happening to this country will have a Brexit contribution, the only discussion is how impactful this contribution is. For this situation, here's a well balanced perspective:

https://www.euronews.com/green/2023/...able-shortages

It is the highlighted part that is important here: our decision to isolate ourselves, in trading terms, means that suppliers will naturally choose easier markets to deliver to if they can .. this seems to the case here. Had we still been in the EU, we would be getting more supplies. Sort of obvious really.

I agree 100%. These discussions, like many discussions these days seems to lack nuance. If something happens, it’s either completely due to Brexit or Brexit has nothing to do with it. It is almost always somewhere in the middle.

See also do masks and vaccine work with COVID…

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by ianch99

What is important here is not to listen to the binary cause specialists. "A problem is either caused by Brexit or it is not". Of course, you will get the zealots jumping on statements like "We have no fruit because of Brexit" but you would have to be naïve or a fool to be gas lit by their responses.

It may be a big shock but the world is more complex that this binary, cartoon-like representation. Most things that are happening to this country will have a Brexit contribution, the only discussion is how impactful this contribution is. For this situation, here's a well balanced perspective:

https://www.euronews.com/green/2023/...able-shortages



It is the highlighted part that is important here: our decision to isolate ourselves, in trading terms, means that suppliers will naturally choose easier markets to deliver to if they can .. this seems to the case here. Had we still been in the EU, we would be getting more supplies. Sort of obvious really.

I might have missed something but didn’t that commentator acknowledge that Ireland is having similar problems? Is that due in any way to Brexit?

Fact is, France and Germany are paying the higher price for the reduced stock of salad vegetables than our supermarkets were prepared to pay.

Sunak appears to have had a bit of a blunder: https://news.sky.com/story/king-char...tions-12819073

Seems like he tried to get the King to meet Ursula von der Leyen over the protocol. The details would be hammered out by the Government obviously, the King would just have been doing the usual handshaking and PR stuff, but Suank seems to be trying to use him to win over his own party and the DUP. Which is dodgy.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Damien

Sunak appears to have had a bit of a blunder: https://news.sky.com/story/king-char...tions-12819073

Seems like he tried to get the King to meet Ursula von der Leyen over the protocol. The details would be hammered out by the Government obviously, the King would just have been doing the usual handshaking and PR stuff, but Suank seems to be trying to use him to win over his own party and the DUP. Which is dodgy.

It's like a filling up the car with petrol moment, or looking the part in his car without a seatbelt.

Clueless as to how to do things.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

It's like a filling up the car with petrol moment, or looking the part in his car without a seatbelt.

Clueless as to how to do things.

Whatever we might think about Johnson, he was pretty good at this type of thing.

---------- Post added at 22:12 ---------- Previous post was at 21:59 ----------

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Wasn't this fiasco supposed to cut down on red tape and I wonder what excuse will be dreamed up at the end of year to excuse the car crash, might be better if they don't try tbh, just accept it for what it is, this is the price we pay, same as with our now open door asylum policy

You need to eat more turnips and stop talking Brexit down.

[daveeb]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Whatever we might think about Johnson, he was pretty good at this type of thing.

---------- Post added at 22:12 ---------- Previous post was at 21:59 ----------


You need to eat more turnips and stop talking Brexit down.

Yes a nice seasonal turnip salad should stop all that tomato anxiety.

[heero_yuy]

Apparently there's been a run on turnips with supermarkets suggesting swede as an alternative.

Bit tough on the Baldricks amongst us.

I’m blessed to be able to afford a turnip of my own. But I long for the day I could afford a turnip in the country.