Britain outside the EU

[Mad Max]

I want to commend you on your posts. They are clear, detailed and address the points that the Leave supporters here will not address honestly. The reason being is that they are unable to. They will deflect or will reinvent their original positions, a new reality stating: "Well, we knew all along that that there will be problems, pain and loss of revenue, etc".

ah, bless.

[daveeb]

Originally Posted by ianch99

I don't really care what you do or don't think. I care about the millions who believed the liars and voted thinking that they and their children would be better off.

---------- Post added at 19:17 ---------- Previous post was at 18:58 ----------



I want to commend you on your posts. They are clear, detailed and address the points that the Leave supporters here will not address honestly. The reason being is that they are unable to. They will deflect or will reinvent their original positions, a new reality stating: "Well, we knew all along that that there will be problems, pain and loss of revenue, etc".

Indeed, rb's posts were an excellent forensic dissection of the whole sorry mess.

[roughbeast]

Originally Posted by ianch99

I want to commend you on your posts. They are clear, detailed and address the points that the Leave supporters here will not address honestly. The reason being is that they are unable to. They will deflect or will reinvent their original positions, a new reality stating: "Well, we knew all along that that there will be problems, pain and loss of revenue, etc".

Thank you. I try my best, because it is still such an important issue.

Originally Posted by Mad Max

ah, bless.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by ianch99

I don't really care what you do or don't think. I care about the millions who believed the liars and voted thinking that they and their children would be better off.

---------- Post added at 19:17 ---------- Previous post was at 18:58 ----------



I want to commend you on your posts. They are clear, detailed and address the points that the Leave supporters here will not address honestly. The reason being is that they are unable to. They will deflect or will reinvent their original positions, a new reality stating: "Well, we knew all along that that there will be problems, pain and loss of revenue, etc".

I am able to address Roughie's post honestly - it's just that on this occasion there's so much there to deal with. If you strip the Remainer sentiment away from Roughie's observations, most of his words are statements of fact - pretty much.

Roughie has made some inconsistencies, though. For example the "carbon-emitting miles" statement; they are the same with our own trade deals as with the EU's. Roughie criticises the notion of a US trade deal where we would be rule takers; he doesn't mind being rule taker from the EU because we had a hand in making those rules.

Brexit will work because Business will see to it (it's what they do). But the Remainers' viewpoint is rooted in the dire warnings they issued during Project Fear - something they did believe in. The Leavers' viewpoint is rooted in sovereignty. Little did the Leavers know that we now have such a useless government.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

[COLOR="Blue"]


What - the tax rises? No temporary abandonment was necessary - just a revised timetable and rationale should have been declared.

A revised timetable would also have entailed a broken promise. I’m sorry, Seph, but you are not being realistic. Covid cost us billions and billions of pounds, and not taking account of that is, well, (fill in the blank)…

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

A revised timetable would also have entailed a broken promise. I’m sorry, Seph, but you are not being realistic. Covid cost us billions and billions of pounds, and not taking account of that is, well, (fill in the blank)…

A revised timetable could have been scrutinised and would provide some comfort that they have matters in hand. Truth is, Boris has no intention of honouring the important parts of his manifesto. He prefers to strut the eco-loon stage and beggar us in the process.

The Covid bill will be paid off exactly as the WW2 lend-lease debt was paid; it takes 50+ years, funded from the proceeds of economic growth.

I remind you:

- Rewilding instead of growing our own food;
- Importing gas and coal instead of producing it ourselves (save for North Sea).

I am totally realistic.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Oh dear, you clearly do not and apparently cannot get the irony: talkRadio, a radio station employing people like Julia Hartley-Brewer and Mike Graham, do a Brexit poll and the result above. It's hilarious ..

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Deflection. The Leave campaign lied pure and simple. They lied and the country is permanently impoverished as a result in so many ways.

You also missed the irony of a talkRadio poll returning the result it did.

Yet you refuse to acknowledge that remain lied. Why do you see everything so one-sided?

You may see deflection. I see balance. You only pronounce ‘deflection’ because you know you have no argument.

Why not just address the point?

You can take that as a rhetorical comment if it saves your embarrassment.

[Mad Max]

Originally Posted by Hugh

ah, the master of the Gifs..

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

A revised timetable could have been scrutinised and would provide some comfort that they have matters in hand. Truth is, Boris has no intention of honouring the important parts of his manifesto. He prefers to strut the eco-loon stage and beggar us in the process.

The Covid bill will be paid off exactly as the WW2 lend-lease debt was paid; it takes 50+ years, funded from the proceeds of economic growth.

I remind you:

- Rewilding instead of growing our own food;
- Importing gas and coal instead of producing it ourselves (save for North Sea).

I am totally realistic.

And while we were paying our WWII debt back to the Americans we became the ‘poor man of Europe’. Remember that?

High debt levels are the speciality of the Labour Party - please don’t go there.

The tax burden will reduce by the next election. The debt burden goes on seemingly forever.

---------- Post added at 20:32 ---------- Previous post was at 20:31 ----------

Originally Posted by Mad Max

ah, the master of the Gifs..

He speaks a strange language, Max. Listen, but don’t touch!

[daveeb]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Yet you refuse to acknowledge that remain lied. Why do you see everything so one-sided?

You may see deflection. I see balance. You only pronounce ‘deflection’ because you know you have no argument.

Why not just address the point?

You can take that as a rhetorical comment if it saves your embarrassment.

Very good OB, that made me chuckle.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by daveeb

Very good OB, that made me chuckle.

Glad to see you are amused, mate, but it really is disappointing to see that some people just don’t get that the things they criticise one side for, their own side did as well.

The thing is, I don’t think Brexiteers did lie. The most obvious one the leavers like to trot out is the claim that we would save a small fortune on not being members of the EU. They quoted the gross sum rather than the net sum for a reason - the EU could withdraw their concession to the UK at any time.

The net amount was not exactly a small amount, by the way, and we have already credited the NHS with the gross sum under Theresa May’s Prime Ministership.

The remainer lies were quite deliberate lies, for which they should be ashamed.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by daveeb

Very good OB, that made me chuckle.

Whichever thread it is, Comical Ali never fails to deliver lots of chuckles by defending the hapless Johnson first and then worrying about the evidence contradicting this stance later.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Yet you refuse to acknowledge that remain lied. Why do you see everything so one-sided?

You may see deflection. I see balance. You only pronounce ‘deflection’ because you know you have no argument.

Why not just address the point?

You can take that as a rhetorical comment if it saves your embarrassment.

You wouldn't know the word balance if it bit you on the behind.

The Remain campaign was arguing for the real world, the one existing at the time, the one you could quantify and measure. They were accurate and honest about what they were selling because it was the reality of the world that everyone lived in. The Leave campaign were selling sunlit uplands with no downsides i.e. Lies. You will never accept that they lied because you, like others, are so invested in the project that you have wished for, for so long.

It is Deflection because you will never address the lies that Leave used to get over the line. You will try and deflect: "But Sir, they lied as well!"

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by ianch99

You wouldn't know the word balance if it bit you on the behind.

The Remain campaign was arguing for the real world, the one existing at the time, the one you could quantify and measure. They were accurate and honest about what they were selling because it was the reality of the world that everyone lived in. The Leave campaign were selling sunlit uplands with no downsides i.e. Lies. You will never accept that they lied because you, like others, are so invested in the project that you have wished for, for so long.

It is Deflection because you will never address the lies that Leave used to get over the line. You will try and deflect: "But Sir, they lied as well!"

The 52% of voters did not buy the Remain campaign. They did not want to retain the "existing world".

The Leave campaign were selling the doable possible and then Boris (and possibly Covid - but mainly Boris) started screwing things up. That is no reason to have stayed under the EU thumb. The Leave campaign did not lie; the Government are not capable of implementing what the campaign suggested.

It doesn't mean that we should have remained in the EU.

The difference between me and OB is that I've never viewed Brexit as a matter of the "sunlit uplands".