Britain outside the EU

Careful - the unwoke will be after you…

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65612295

One of the world's biggest carmakers has called on the government to renegotiate part of the Brexit deal or risk losing parts of its car industry.

Stellantis, which makes Vauxhall, Peugeot, Citroen and Fiat had committed to making electric vehicles in the UK.

But it has now said it is no longer able to meet Brexit trade rules on where parts are sourced.

...

If the government cannot get an agreement to keep the current rules until 2027, from next year "trade between the UK and EU would be subject to 10% tariffs", it said.

This would make domestic production and exports uncompetitive in comparison to Japan and South Korea, it said.

It's incredible what an act of self-sabotage Brexit has been.

[jfman]

It was supposed to be the German car manufacturers making demands was it not?

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Damien

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65612295



It's incredible what an act of self-sabotage Brexit has been.

Don't worry, after trashing the country, if you don't like the them at least you can you can vote them out after 5 years

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Damien

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65612295
It's incredible what an act of self-sabotage Brexit has been.

Another big issue here is the lack of a plan for infrastructure with local chemical manufacturers and battery manufacturers feeding into local car plants. The EU and US get this and are throwing money at it. The UK is not and the logical consequence is that car manufacturing will migrate away from the UK over time.
Our lack of focus on this important issue is a side product of Brexit as the government has been bogged down with Brexit instead of devising a robust industrial policy.
https://parliamentlive.tv/event/inde...3-9cadf11b8bef

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Another big issue here is the lack of a plan for infrastructure with local chemical manufacturers and battery manufacturers feeding into local car plants. The EU and US get this and are throwing money at it. The UK is not and the logical consequence is that car manufacturing will migrate away from the UK over time.
Our lack of focus on this important issue is a side product of Brexit as the government has been bogged down with Brexit instead of devising a robust industrial policy.
https://parliamentlive.tv/event/inde...3-9cadf11b8bef

Another input on this point from ex-Nissan CEO:

https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/s...26389585944576

Former Nissan CEO, Andy Palmer, with a stark warning: "We've been sleeping at the wheel, when it comes to bringing battery plants to the UK. The cost of failure is very clear: It's 800,000 jobs in the UK."

[Pierre]

https://techmonitor.ai/government-co...hima-agreement

Great news.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Another input on this point from ex-Nissan CEO:

https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/s...26389585944576

Who needs to hear from experts on this subject when we've got John Redwood, now with extra comedy?

UK car jobs are at great risk from the ban on sales of all diesel and petrol cars in 2030 which is what they make, and from the lack of UK battery capacity crucial to making electric cars instead. A possible tariff by the EU on cars we are not making is not a key problem.

https://twitter.com/johnredwood/stat...50850658992129

[Sephiroth]

All this will sort itself out. True, in this motor industry case, government action is needed and the problem the Tories have is inability to find a way through that is a sensible evolutions of Brexit.

The single market will solve this at ther expense of giving up some sovereign rights. If that saves 800,000 jobs, I’m all for it. Our major sovereignty and independence won’t be dented if we’re told what the square root of a foreign banana has to be.

At the same time, we must become self-sufficient for basic foods and be self-sufficient on energy, quickly. We should use our own gas till it’s gone and pour state money into the SMRs that Rolls Royce is developing.

Trouble is, the conditions they may impose on granting us single market association could scupper some of the independent things I want the UK to do. All purely hypothetical.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

All this will sort itself out.

The clock is ticking. Business wants an industrial policy, membership of the Single Market whilst a good thing in itself does not an industrial policy make.

I was encouraged by the JLR discussions but we shouldn't really have to wait for the next PM until we get an industrial policy.

---------- Post added at 13:48 ---------- Previous post was at 13:46 ----------

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

At the same time, we must become self-sufficient for basic foods and be self-sufficient on energy, quickly. We should use our own gas till it’s gone and pour state money into the SMRs that Rolls Royce is developing.

That's trickier for food as:
a) Rightly or wrongly, energy costs are subsidised less than our competitors' energy costs
b) Farmers have reduced subsidies since we left the EU

As a consequence, farmers are cutting back on their production as more and more of it is sadly loss-making for them.

I suspect many farmers will also be cutting back on their traditional support for the Conservative Party as they find it has become more a party of privilege and privet hedges than corn and cattle.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

All this will sort itself out. True, in this motor industry case, government action is needed and the problem the Tories have is inability to find a way through that is a sensible evolutions of Brexit.

The single market will solve this at ther expense of giving up some sovereign rights. If that saves 800,000 jobs, I’m all for it. Our major sovereignty and independence won’t be dented if we’re told what the square root of a foreign banana has to be.

At the same time, we must become self-sufficient for basic foods and be self-sufficient on energy, quickly. We should use our own gas till it’s gone and pour state money into the SMRs that Rolls Royce is developing.

Trouble is, the conditions they may impose on granting us single market association could scupper some of the independent things I want the UK to do. All purely hypothetical.

No this won't do, this is not what we were promised, leave means leave, what bit of that don't you understand.

Also the self sufficiency on food won't be happening either, we were told by both sides farming would have to be sacrificed but it's a price worth paying as smugg said we'll have cheaper clothes, food and footwear from day one

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

All this will sort itself out. True, in this motor industry case, government action is needed and the problem the Tories have is inability to find a way through that is a sensible evolutions of Brexit.

The single market will solve this at ther expense of giving up some sovereign rights. If that saves 800,000 jobs, I’m all for it. Our major sovereignty and independence won’t be dented if we’re told what the square root of a foreign banana has to be.

At the same time, we must become self-sufficient for basic foods and be self-sufficient on energy, quickly. We should use our own gas till it’s gone and pour state money into the SMRs that Rolls Royce is developing.

Trouble is, the conditions they may impose on granting us single market association could scupper some of the independent things I want the UK to do. All purely hypothetical.

Seph, this is a really interesting post, You seem to be accepting that the 40+ years of being part of an economic ecosystem cannot be replaced at no cost. The just-in-time manufacturing systems, the location of partner companies, the strategic planning, often years ahead and the cost-based assumptions factoring into the bottom line all bring you to the conclusion you arrive at.

Yes, you can rip out the central nervous system of the economy and try and replace it with an alternative but don't pretend it won't be at a cost and won't be in the short or medium term. Yet this is *exactly* what was promised and why the vote was won by Leave.

I admire your logic ...

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Seph, this is a really interesting post, You seem to be accepting that the 40+ years of being part of an economic ecosystem cannot be replaced at no cost. The just-in-time manufacturing systems, the location of partner companies, the strategic planning, often years ahead and the cost-based assumptions factoring into the bottom line all bring you to the conclusion you arrive at.

Yes, you can rip out the central nervous system of the economy and try and replace it with an alternative but don't pretend it won't be at a cost and won't be in the short or medium term. Yet this is *exactly* what was promised and why the vote was won by Leave.

I admire your logic ...

Thank you, Ian. My logic is always impeccable,

Truth is, we have to evolve as we face stark choices.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Thank you, Ian. My logic is always impeccable,

Truth is, we have to evolve as we face stark choices.

I detect a few Bregrets, Seph. Good to see pragmatism coming out on top.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I detect a few Bregrets, Seph. Good to see pragmatism coming out on top.

No Bregrets, Andrew. Just regrets that the government is total crap.

If the blob causes Braverman to resign, then I'll have to leave the Conservative Party.