Britain outside the EU

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

You are not listening - you never do. Farage and co said what they believed was possible. The fact that it was tackled the wrong way does not make him a liar. That is a very perverse logic.

The irony you say I don’t listen then completely ignore that I offered two options.

I ‘invoked’ remainers because they were so intent on wrecking the negotiations as they wanted to get their own way. Your ‘invoking’ the whataboutery card is nonsense because it was those activities which were largely responsible for disruption to the negotiations. It is a reason, not a ‘whataboutery’. People tend to use ‘whataboutery’ to prevent a logical argument highlighting an alternative they don’t like, because it neuters their own argument. It’s the coward’s way out of a discussion.

I fail to see how anyone outside of Government could have any influence on negotiations at all. The Conservatives own this.

The EU was not irrational in trying that line with us, I agree, and I didn’t say otherwise. Theresa May took the rug from under the feet of the Brexiteers, and that was the first thing that put us on the back foot, which was a gift the the remain lobby.

I’m not even sure what you are trying to say here. The Conservatives chose May. Prominent members of her Cabinet have served throughout to this day.

Your attempts at deflection are as transparent as they are tedious.

The EU acted entirely rationally. They’ve been underestimated throughout. None of this is a surprise to anyone who wasn’t blinkered by ideology.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

The irony you say I don’t listen then completely ignore that I offered two options.

The other being that they are idiots? I didn’t ignore that, I treated it with the disdain it deserved. People aren’t idiots or liars simply because they disagree with your point of view.

Originally Posted by jfman

I fail to see how anyone outside of Government could have any influence on negotiations at all. The Conservatives own this.

I’ve answered that, but clearly you want us to forget what the remainers did. Brexiteers have not forgotten.

Originally Posted by jfman

I’m not even sure what you are trying to say here. The Conservatives chose May. Prominent members of her Cabinet have served throughout to this day.

Your attempts at deflection are as transparent as they are tedious.

The EU acted entirely rationally. They’ve been underestimated throughout. None of this is a surprise to anyone who wasn’t blinkered by ideology.

You are repeating yourself and I have already agreed with you that the EU acted rationally from their perspective. The thing you won’t acknowledge is the role of the remainers at the time, who did their absolute best to sabotage the whole thing, despite the result of the referendum.

Yes, the Conservatives chose May, but clearly, you cannot know in advance what the elected leader will do. That’s on her, and it was the start of her downfall.

The only deflection going on is yours, because you lay every problem we have at the door of the Conservatives without acknowledging the role others played in attempting to wreck the deal that was required.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

The other being that they are idiots? I didn’t ignore that, I treated it with the disdain it deserved. People aren’t idiots or liars simply because they disagree with your point of view.

How else would you describe people who were consistently wrong? Relatable?

I’ve answered that, but clearly you want us to forget what the remainers did. Brexiteers have not forgotten.

and what are they going to do? Start a revolution? By the time Starmer rolls back the current deal they’ll all be former MPs.

This isn’t France, OB. Brits just eat their gruel and get on with it while their betters laugh at them.

You are repeating yourself and I have already agreed with you that the EU acted rationally from their perspective. The thing you won’t acknowledge is the role of the remainers at the time, who did their absolute best to sabotage the whole thing, despite the result of the referendum.

Yes, the Conservatives chose May, but clearly, you cannot know in advance what the elected leader will do. That’s on her, and it was the start of her downfall.

The only deflection going on is yours, because you lay every problem we have at the door of the Conservatives without acknowledging the role others played in attempting to wreck the deal that was required.

Governments govern. Oppositions make noise.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

How else would you describe people who were consistently wrong? Relatable?



and what are they going to do? Start a revolution? By the time Starmer rolls back the current deal they’ll all be former MPs.

This isn’t France, OB. Brits just eat their gruel and get on with it while their betters laugh at them.



Governments govern. Oppositions make noise.

Deflection and no substance, jfman. I’m not responding to this, it’s embarrassing.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Deflection and no substance, jfman. I’m not responding to this, it’s embarrassing.

Au contraire, OB.

I’ll settle for Seph’s approval. Your disapproval is a badge of honour that my messaging isn’t going down well on the sinking ship that is HMS CCHQ.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

Au contraire, OB.

I’ll settle for Seph’s approval. Your disapproval is a badge of honour that my messaging isn’t going down well on the sinking ship that is HMS CCHQ.

My disapproval is based on your lack of an ability to discuss anything you disagree with. Let’s leave it at that, it is boring the followers of this thread.

[jfman]

If the people who claimed we could have all the benefits of the single market without being in the single market aren’t idiots they must be liars. It follows that if they are honest they are not clever for missing a glaringly obvious EU red line around rule setting and the ECJ.

Your inability to comprehend this in the thread can only be wilfully obtuse on your part, and doing so because of your inability to criticise them for purely ideological reasons.

I’ve tried to move the conversation on many times, inviting everyone to be positive about the steps Starmer and the next government will take. There’s no point dwelling on the deceptions and incompetence of the past. Britain is at a crossroads, and can finally draw a line under a decade of chaos and confusion.

The adults can sit at the negotiating table while the children play with their toys in the corner and wonder if we can get a Canada deal.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by jfman

If the people who claimed we could have all the benefits of the single market without being in the single market aren’t idiots they must be liars. It follows that if they are honest they are not clever for missing a glaringly obvious EU red line around rule setting and the ECJ.

Your inability to comprehend this in the thread can only be wilfully obtuse on your part, and doing so because of your inability to criticise them for purely ideological reasons.

I’ve tried to move the conversation on many times, inviting everyone to be positive about the steps Starmer and the next government will take. There’s no point dwelling on the deceptions and incompetence of the past. Britain is at a crossroads, and can finally draw a line under a decade of chaos and confusion.

The adults can sit at the negotiating table while the children play with their toys in the corner and wonder if we can get a Canada deal.

[1andrew1]

Worrying for the workforce.

Fears for Vauxhall Luton van plant's future due to Brexit

The long term future of a major vehicle plant and 1,500 jobs could be put in jeopardy if part of the Brexit treaty is not renegotiated, its plant director has warned.

Luton Vauxhall director Mark Noble said he was confident, however, the "massive challenges" could be overcome.

But he said with 70% of vans being exported into mainland Europe, tariffs risked its competitiveness.

The government said it was working with the EU to find a solution to the issue.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...herts-66126185

[jfman]

I’m old enough to remember when it was meant to be the German car manufacturers moaning?

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by jfman

I’m old enough to remember when it was meant to be the German car manufacturers moaning?

And I remember Patrick Minford telling us manufacturing would have to be sacrificed so we can't say we weren't warned

[OLD BOY]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b2375947.html

The CPTPP trade deal has been signed. Immediate benefits estimated at £1.8bn per year once operational, with huge opportunities for us to build on that.

Keri Benedoch confirmed on Laura K’s show this morning that the Indian trade deal was making good progress.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b2375947.html

The CPTPP trade deal has been signed. Immediate benefits estimated at £1.8bn per year once operational, with huge opportunities for us to build on that.

Keri Benedoch confirmed on Laura K’s show this morning that the Indian trade deal was making good progress.

If by "immediate", you mean "in ten years time"….

with official estimates suggesting it will add just £1.8bn a year to the economy after 10 years

[Dave42]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b2375947.html

The CPTPP trade deal has been signed. Immediate benefits estimated at £1.8bn per year once operational, with huge opportunities for us to build on that.

Keri Benedoch confirmed on Laura K’s show this morning that the Indian trade deal was making good progress.

you mean the 0.08% in 10 years year great NOTTTTTTTT check out video and some level of deceit being perpetrated here. £12 trillion is the combined GDP of all CPTPP members.

https://twitter.com/RidgeOnSunday/st...93652882124800

[1andrew1]

So a shockingly miniscule 0.08% uplift from this deal whilst Brexit is giving us a 5% reduction in GDP.
I guess every little helps but even if those countries grow by a staggering 100% that's still only a 0.16% uplift!

https://news.sky.com/story/joining-i...1-8bn-12921751

Meanwhile, how's things going with our largest trading partner?

We’re getting new [EU] legislation continuously,” said Fergus McReynolds, director of EU affairs at the manufacturers’ trade body Make UK. “So as the UK stays static, you’re having to treat the EU and the UK as two completely different markets from a regulatory perspective.”

McReynolds said Make UK’s members are focused on three main EU regulations: the bloc’s upcoming carbon border tax, implementation of plastic packaging rules and draft supply chain due diligence laws being discussed by member states.

The introduction of the EU carbon border adjustment mechanism is likely to have a significant effect on companies trading with the bloc, according to George Riddell, director of trade strategy at consultancy EY, who is helping UK businesses that export to the EU prepare for the measure.

From October this year EU companies will have to compile reports on the carbon emissions attached to some imported goods, including steel, aluminium and fertilisers, with businesses having to buy certificates to cover emissions embedded in products from 2026.

The paperwork and costs associated with the carbon tax will land on UK companies who supply components to EU businesses covered by the regulation — which affects products as prosaic as nuts and bolts. As a result, some of these UK companies will be more difficult to trade with for EU businesses.

And service companies don't get away from the leaky tyre effect of Brexit either.

Accountants MHA warned that EU tax rules for virtual services will change in January 2025, meaning British businesses providing online facilities to consumers will have to pay VAT where the customer resides rather than in the UK, as now.

Sue Rathmell, partner at MHA, said: “UK businesses providing virtual [business to consumer] services to the EU, such as webinars, online conferences or advertising software, require swift input from [HM Revenue & Customs] in response to the EU’s intention to overhaul place of supply rules from January 2025.”

https://www.ft.com/content/5f75a690-...0-eb0d544d7bd3