Brexit (Old)

[denphone]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Brave words, Chloe.😀

A lot of truth in what Chloe says Andrew.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Actually (and not a lot of people know this), the Nazi's privatised a lot of the State industries...

http://www.ub.edu/graap/nazi.pdf

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...9.2009.00473.x

And they had really nice boots .

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Originally Posted by denphone

A lot of truth in what Chloe says Andrew.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

I fit the category I've highlighted above. Something no British PM could achieve - a reformed EU given French intransigence over the CAP and German hegemony (issues that the Remainers in this thread have avoided discussing).

You have repeated this many times now. I replied early on with my argument why you are wrong, others can speak for themselves.

Remember that some country has to be the largest economy in Europe. You feel Germany uses its position for malign influence. I think you are wrong but you have every right to believe it.

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Brave words, Chloe.😀

She is right, Andrew. Too little time and too much to lose on both sides. The decision makers will, in the end, ignore the deluded "WTO is the only way" fanatics and punt the can down the road of pragmatism.

The really interesting bit comes at the end of the transition period

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by ianch99

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[/COLOR]

She is right, Andrew. Too little time and too much to lose on both sides. The decision makers will, in the end, ignore the deluded "WTO is the only way" fanatics and punt the can down the road of pragmatism.

The really interesting bit comes at the end of the transition period

I've never met a "WTO is the only way" fanatic. WTO rules are only a stop-gap if needed while trade deals are being formed.

On the other hand there are those who think leaving the EU with no deal means the end of the world and all trade will stop.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by pip08456

I've never met a "WTO is the only way" fanatic. WTO rules are only a stop-gap if needed while trade deals are being formed

You may not have actually met one but here's a few choice selection of TOWIWTO advocates:

Express: 'We will not crash out!' Leading Brexiteer insists Britain will THRIVE on WTO rules

FT: Pro-Brexit MPs to set out plans for no deal

Spectator: No deal with the EU? Sounds like a good deal to me

Brexitcentral.com: The WTO option is now the best choice for Brexit

Leavehq.com: What’s wrong with the WTO Option?

Originally Posted by pip08456

On the other hand there are those who think leaving the EU with no deal means the end of the world and all trade will stop

Ah, the much played "Project Fear" card. I think that diversionary tactic has been seen through by now.

[Chloé Palmas]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Theresa May said that the specific detail needed to be worked out, but as I said, this is a negotiation. When you are conducting negotiations, you leave certain doors ajar so that there is wriggle room and neither side gets entrenched with one particular solution.

Okay...do you understand that sometimes in life there is nothing to negotiate?? When the EU says that the 4 principles of freedom that they have are indivisible, do you not get that?

When JRM says that no how, no way is he going to accept a compromise, do you not think that he is deadly serious?

Opening doors / trying to wiggle some kind of rebranding through etc...that is what everyone is so annoyed about to begin with. The EU won't budge, those who want to leave based on total severing of everything won't ease either...then there is you. You and May. The EU are not going to budge, the ERG are not going to budge, the DUP have made it clear that they will not support a border down the Irish Sea, lab / lib Dems will not back anything that the Tories propose, the SNP hate everything English etc etc.

No means no...you have to learn to accept that word.

People are angry because this has taken a long time and they still cannot work out how this will be implemented. However, by October, there will be clarity.

Holy shit, this is like Groundhog day. Every time you say "you'll see, next time she'll get it right!"

What is wrong with you??

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Chloé Palmas

<SNIP>

The EU are not going to budge, the ERG are not going to budge, the DUP have made it clear that they will not support a border down the Irish Sea, lab / lib Dems will not back anything that the Tories propose, the SNP hate everything English etc etc.

?

There you have it. The political class is now past their use by date. They should rot in the gutter for letting us down. And that includes the Brussels unmentionables.

[Chloé Palmas]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

UK: Right - we've had enough of your intransigence and determination to punish the UK. If you can't give reasonable ground, then you can kiss the £39 billion goodbye.

EU: But you've agreed already to the £39 billion. You can't go back on that.

UK: That was when we, like the fools we are, thought that you were going to be reasonable.

EU: If that's now your game, we'll put a border up between our lovely Irish country and your crappy Northern Ireland. We'll insist on visas for your horrible people to visit Europe. We'll deprive you of our wonderful BMW and Mercedes cars not to mention our emission cheating VWs and Audis. Our beautiful French citizens can do without your shitty lamb and we'll put up our taxes to cover your lousy £39 billion.

UK: Of course. BAU.

QFFT.

[Chloé Palmas]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

You are falling for the hype of the remainers, who are growing ever more desperate.

Yeah, this is probably the one place me and you agree on ; for different reasons all be it. There is no need for any on the remain side to worry or grow desperate at all. Because May keeps going the rate she is, we're bot leaving and the leavers will be the ones infuriated.

First of all, you seem to be saying there has been no negotiation and the EU keep saying 'no'. If that was really the case, how come that both sides agree that we are 80% there? The illusion you are painting is not an awfully good one.

They agree that they are 80% there, because the 100% of that 80% was either already EU law, or what they asked, we gave. (Like the divorce bill etc). Like Sephiroth said, the EU have probably not acted in good faith - but then again, why should they? They are dealing with someone who has all to beg for and no dignity left to hold on to. When they talked about the divorce bill, we agreed. Transition timeline, they decided the length. The issue of citizens right - we both decided to agree on their terms for both our sets of people. The ECJ? The issue of Fisheries, the aspect of Europol and of the 4 principles, and on and on and on and on. What the heck have they agreed to that Britain has requested?? It has been a one way street.

I want to flip that question round from above...how can this be called a negotiation when all we ever do as obey their commands? It is not a negotiation...she is just being told what her place is.

FWIW if I ever get to intense negotiations, I want it to be with someone like May, too. I should come out of it alright.

You can see from the new bounce in her step that at long last, Theresa May can see that the final details of this plan will soon be agreed.

Look I have to ask something before we carry on...are you related to her or something? (At which point I will stop, out of courtesy for you defending a family member. Because honestly, there can be no other explanation for your behavior...)

[Chloé Palmas]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Not really. A proposed deal the EU won't accept will not be accepted and will simply result in article 50 being invoked without a deal. Simple.

So you said this before you said "there will be a deal by the end of October, you'll see!!"

You are all over the place - are you quite alright?

Also, what happened to your love of all things Max Fac?? Remember when you kept saying that it was the only way to go / was going to be the only choice / it was going to pass?

You sure changed your tune on that real fast...

OB it is becoming impossible to take you seriously on a single discussion involving anything political anymore...

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Chloé Palmas

So you said this before you said "there will be a deal by the end of October, you'll see!!"

You are all over the place - are you quite alright?

Also, what happened to your love of all things Max Fac?? Remember when you kept saying that it was the only way to go / was going to be the only choice / it was going to pass?

You sure changed your tune on that real fast...

OB it is becoming impossible to take you seriously on a single discussion involving anything political anymore...

In fairness to Old Boy, his end of October deadline is two months away.
I still think we'll leave the EU next March but through necessity, will mirror lots of its regulations without any input to them.

[Chloé Palmas]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Poor Yvette. She's not the brightest candle on the cake, is she? But boy, is she loud!

This, coming from you? You get every single prediction wrong, but wow do you shout it from the rooftops!

She doesn't seem to grasp that this is a negotiation and that the details have to be discussed with the EU. She's not the only one who doesn't get it, though.

Unfortunately the other "she" (May), seems to think that it is.

Anyway what would be the point in discussing it with the EU? Most of the negotiations that May was doing was with her own cabinet.

Now she is done on that phase, and the EU have rejected it, she can have fun negotiating it within her own larger party. Then with parliament as a whole. (Until they boot her).

Think she'll approach it with a "shhh it's a secret" selling point?

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by Chloé Palmas

we're bot leaving

We're Leaving due to the Bots, I get it ..

[Angua]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

I fit the category I've highlighted above. Something no British PM could achieve - a reformed EU given French intransigence over the CAP and German hegemony (issues that the Remainers in this thread have avoided discussing).

With Macron, even the CAP seems to have potential for change, but we are leaving, so will have no influence.

Somewhat simplistic perhaps, but the EU has always seemed confusing for the average UK citizen. What people see on the news is all about the various nations political leaders getting to decide EU policy and direction.
Where the people we elect as MEPs are there to serve the whole of the EU and sit within groups of a similar political flavour, not solely to represent the UK. So such as hard working MEPs are forgotten, whilst the noisy and lazy such as Farage make the news.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by ianch99

We're Leaving due to the Bots, I get it ..

Lol