Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

[NTLVictim]

Originally Posted by BetBlowWhistler

<OT>



LMFAO

I just had this picture fly through my head of a big pidgeon with a peaked cap on !

or did you mean coup ?
lol

</OT>

<irony> It's spelled pigeon...</irony>

[Kursk]

Originally Posted by Dephormation

Incidentally I think ICO are long overdue a few FOI requests too.

How many complaints? How many actioned? How many upheld? How many contacts with Phorm? How many contacts with 80/20? How many contacts with independant IT consultants? etc

It will be interesting to see what happens if they ignore FOI requests, they are responsible for handling FOI complaints ... argh implosion.!!

They can't ignore FOI requests; the requirement to respond is statutory.

[BadPhormula]

Originally Posted by Florence

That should show Simon the type of person he is dealing with plus shows a valid reason for peoples distrust in what he says. Since he has proved he cannot be trusted to complete the tasks he says. Personally Simon should open his eyes and see Phorm managment for what they are.

Unfortunately Simon can't see Phorm for what they are with those £50 notes sellotaped over his eyes.

[Rchivist]

I don't want to get into any spats, but I'm really uncomfortable with the personal criticism of Simon Davies that is going on here. I don't think the world will come to an end if we just wait to see what happens with the PIA.

We can disagree with actions that 80/20 may have taken, but I do get uneasy when that turns into personal remarks and they certainly don't take our campaign forward. The guilty parties here are the ISP's and Phorm.

Just my penn'orth.

[JackSon]

Originally Posted by R Jones

I don't want to get into any spats, but I'm really uncomfortable with the personal criticism of Simon Davies that is going on here. I don't think the world will come to an end if we just wait to see what happens with the PIA.

We can disagree with actions that 80/20 may have taken, but I do get uneasy when that turns into personal remarks and they certainly don't take our campaign forward. The guilty parties here are the ISP's and Phorm.

Just my penn'orth.

Some mature words there. In the spirit of 'publish and be damned' let's first await the act of being published.

[Florence]

Originally Posted by JackSon

Some mature words there. In the spirit of 'publish and be damned' let's first await the act of being published.

80/20 my publish and hand to phorm but then it is upto phorm to announce it sadly my faith in their honesty is low, my trust in the large ISPs to consider the customers privacy at the expence of money for their pockets even less...

No attack on Simon really I do realise he is in an awkward position just feel that many people unaware of all this will get conned into phorm and 80/20 thinking PIA might be what makes them think they are safe when in fact this is the start of the slippery slope to dictatorship

[JackSon]

It wasn't your faith in Phorm I was ever questioning, Florence. I do strangely share that level of confidence with regards to that bunch

[Pia]

Originally Posted by R Jones

I don't think the world will come to an end if we just wait to see what happens with the PIA.

You rang?

[BadPhormula]

Originally Posted by R Jones

I don't want to get into any spats, but I'm really uncomfortable with the personal criticism of Simon Davies that is going on here. I don't think the world will come to an end if we just wait to see what happens with the PIA.

We can disagree with actions that 80/20 may have taken, but I do get uneasy when that turns into personal remarks and they certainly don't take our campaign forward. The guilty parties here are the ISP's and Phorm.

Just my penn'orth.

My own "personal" remarks about Simon should be taken as cruel satire rather than hateful personal attacks on his person. I know of Simon's previous work as a privacy advocate and he has done some fantastic work, however many people see his engagement with Phorm as a betrayal (I personally do not, and I see it as an opportunity to play devils advocate and point out the perceived privacy dilemma seen by others).

I know that Simon has mentioned the "opt-in" position several times but another observer over on BadPhorm pointed out after a Channel 4 News interview (London event) that "Simon had certainly _earned_ his Phorm paycheck" the way he came across. (note in that interview Simon mentioned "opt-in" again).

http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/science_technology/data+pimping+or+just+bad+phorm/2028147
(Simon's opinion is around the 2m20s mark)

I think it is valid to keep mentioning Simon's role in the ongoing Phorm debate and how it appears (personal attacks valid upto a point). Another poster remarked that Phorm have tied Simon up with this PIA work in order that he cannot spend an equal amount of time as a critic wearing one of his many hats as 'Privacy International' director. Simon 'Two hats' Davies has damaged himself by taking on the role as Phorm's sycophant privacy advocate Vs his role as the peoples champion battling privacy scums such as Phorm.

Originally Posted by BadPhormula

Unfortunately Simon can't see Phorm for what they are with those £50 notes sellotaped over his eyes.

I’ll admit that, so far, I haven't made one post where I mention Simon Davies that hasn't been derogatory but I'm willing to bite my tongue until it's so blatently obvious that even Alexander believes that the man has sold himself out.

If the PIA still requires three days work before it's finished it could indicate that Phorm are not leaning on 80/20 Thinking for a completion date because they realise that publication will do them absolutely no favours whatsoever.

Apart from that, based on what I've seen both on this forum and elsewhere on the Net, I doubt very much if Alexander is either a bad judge of character or would allow himself to be hoodwinked by anyone over such an important matter.

I’ll go with this:

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/34...-post6992.html



EDIT: Sorry BP I didn't mean you were guilty of making personal attacks - I probably was!

[bluecar1]

from BT today


*********************
Dear Mr. XXXXXX,

Regarding "What is to stop my children / subaccount holders agreeing to the change of contract when they have no authority?":
If you block the domain now on all PC's then the interstitial page will not be presented.

If someone opts into the trial there is a facility for opting out and back in again:
Customers who have been invited to participate in the trial will be able to change their choice to participate or not at any point during the trial. There are two ways customers can do this:



1. Visit www.bt.com/webwise and click 'Switch Off'. This function will be available once the trial has commenced. This method depends on a cookie remaining on your machine to indicate that you have chosen not to take the service. If you delete your cookies, you will be presented with trial invitation page again, giving you the option to accept or decline the trial.



2. If you delete cookies regularly and want to remain opted-out, you can set your browser to block cookies from the domain www.webwise.net. When you block this domain, the service will opt you out permanently. To do this in Internet Explorer, click on 'Tools', then 'Internet Options' and on the Privacy tab, click 'Sites'. In the 'Address of Web site' field, enter 'www.webwise.net' and click 'Block'.

Cookies: As stated before:

In parallel with the forthcoming trial, we are developing a solution which will manage the choice of users without the use of cookies. We believe this approach is reasonable and is supported by the advice we have received.


As my IP address is DHCP what happens if it changes to an IP of someone who has opt-ed in?
If the IP address is re-assigned to a different customer, the invitation page will be displayed for the new customer. This will be triggered by the lack of a Webwise cookie on the new customer's machine.

Regarding: Does the change [accepting trial ts&cs] require me to authenticate to the system before agreement to ensure it is the main account holder, not just one of the subaccounts?

No. The trial invitation page will be presented at the start of the next browsing session following the addition of the trial broadband line's IP address to the trial pool. As stated previously, the invitation page will offer a simple and clear choice of options: yes, no and find out more. Authentication is not required. This approach is consistent with our customer research, but as this is a trial, we will assess the success of the mechanism prior to deciding plans for a full rollout of the service.

If you don't have this already:
Specific techical segregation information can be found here: http://www.webwise.bt.com/webwise/customer_choice.html <https://mail.bt.com/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://www.webwise.bt.com/webwise/customer_choice.html>

I hope this addresses your concerns and questions. We are endeavouring to respond to all your questions, though your comment "On all other occasions I have tried to contact them I get the same, NO REPLY / IGNORED" seems to imply that you are not recieving our emails.

Regards,


BT Webwise Helpdesk

________________________________

From: Broadbandsupport@btinternet.com [mailto:Broadbandsupport@btinternet.com]
Sent: Mon 19/05/2008 16:04
To: BT Webwise Help Desk G
Subject: FWD: RE: Broadband & Internet - BT Broadband - I want to make a complaint (KMM46016865I248XXXXXX)



However, if we have sent this to you in error, please return to us at BT Broadband

Thank you for your assistance,
Jamie XXXXXXX
Kana e-mail Handling Team

Thanks for that,

So it is an account level opt-in?

As my IP address is DHCP what happens if it changes to an IP of someone who has opt-ed in?

What is to stop my children / subaccount holders agreeing to the change of contract when they have no authority? Does the change require me to authenticate to the system before agreement to ensure it is the main account holder, not just one of the subaccounts? Like parental controls

the only loose end now is the cookie situation,

Will any cookies be placed on my pc if I do not opt-in

Thanks

peter

***************

so anyone on a pc in my network can agree and change my contract!!!

the responsibility is mine to ensure this does not happen!!!!

i have to block the cookies in my browsers that way i do not know when they start spying on ME!!!!

on the plus side the full product rollout will be cookie free, but by which time a large number of users will have been duped into a contract change by a sub account holder with nothing they can do about it!!!!

peter

[Wild Oscar]

Originally Posted by R Jones

I don't want to get into any spats, but I'm really uncomfortable with the personal criticism of Simon Davies that is going on here. I don't think the world will come to an end if we just wait to see what happens with the PIA.

We can disagree with actions that 80/20 may have taken, but I do get uneasy when that turns into personal remarks and they certainly don't take our campaign forward. The guilty parties here are the ISP's and Phorm.

Just my penn'orth.

Absolutely right!

[bluecar1]

my response to bt

*************
I have 6 machines in my house why should I have to do this due to your lack of technical abilty to provide a trial with correct authentication and safgegaurds in place that mean only the account holder has the ability to make the initial change to my T's and C's

How will I know if a subaccount holder has agreed to phorm and changed my contract ?

BT should be making sure the trial is conducted in a way where the account holder only has authority to accept the service as it requires a change in the term and conditions of my contract with BT

If I block the domain I will not be aware of when you start spying on my browsing

Can you confirm the statement earlier in the email from one of your colleagues that unless I agree to phorm my terms and conditions will not alter, so I will not be allowed to terminate my contract due to material change to T's and C's?

If I am not receiving your emails in the past it must be an issue with your systems I have always used my BT email account when contacting you asnd I regularly check my bulk mail folder and it is only ever full of viagra adverts which I find funny as I have never emailed anyone other than BT and my sub account holders from this account so who gave them my email address, (you then expect me to trust me with my browsing data?)

If a subaccount holder accepts the change to my T's and C's during the trail how do I get it reverted to the original contract as they would not have had the correct authority to make this change

Does the trail require me to accept a new contract or is it only the full service when released

Regards

Peter
*************

[Florence]

I think the only thing that will make these companies look at this in a different light is if they are given notice of intention to move if it is implemented or more if allthose thinking of moving request a mac key if it is used then you change ISPs if not you stay where you are but BT will think twice if enough request MAC keys saying it is due to phorm.

[bluecar1]

Originally Posted by Florence

I think the only thing that will make these companies look at this in a different light is if they are given notice of intention to move if it is implemented or more if allthose thinking of moving request a mac key if it is used then you change ISPs if not you stay where you are but BT will think twice if enough request MAC keys saying it is due to phorm.

i have another 9 out of 18 months on my contract,

i am praying for a change to my contract so i can bin them, if not i have £200 to pay to buy my contract out