Formula 1 2009 Season [may contain real time spoilers] - Page 41

hedgie · 28-07-2009, 09:24

Having seen the various videos it was almost impossible for Massa to see the spring coming. The fact is was a dull grey probably didn't help, maybe if he had been able to see it earlier he could have possibly avoided it.

Does anyone think there is merit in simply painting certain parts that weigh over a designated amount a dayglo colour? In reality you would probably limit this to rear suspension and steering parts. Front suspension is normally within the chassis.

I know in the case of Henry Surtees it was the wheel that him which is probably the largest piece that could credibly fall off. It is impossible to cater for every scenario but to colour parts would seem a credible option that might avoid another Massa incident?

Am I mad or do you think there is any merit in this?

Kymmy · 28-07-2009, 09:33

Personally I don't think that painting the spring/tyre a different color would have saved either driver from the accident.

What they need to do is to figure out ways of keeping loose items within or attached to the vehicle. Wheel tethers needs to be compulsary on any racing event, Surtees might still be alive if that was the case, Wheels need to be secured using a system where the nuts can;t spin off. Also suprised that something like the suspension spring isn't wire wrapped (or an equivelant) to the car..

hedgie · 28-07-2009, 09:58

I suspect that by any other standards the engineering of an F1 car is probably as good as anything else, including aviaition. Painting would just be a last ditch attempt when all else has failed. Would wire wrapping components be practical? I understood that wire wrapping was usually done to stop nuts coming off not to retain components, but I suppose it could be done.

On the NHRA top fuel dragsters they simply expect supercharger and engine explosions so they wrap the supercharger in a kevlar blanket to contain the inevitable shrapnel.

I think that's the difference, NHRA consider supercharger failures inevitable, by any other standards the current generation of F1 cars have been the most reliable I can remember in almost 30 years of watching the sport. F1 is the pinnacle of engineering but it is a sport and regrettably accidents and failures will happen.

Remember when the Ferrari exhaust was loose for ages then fell off. I suspect if that happens at Valencia there will be an instant black flag.

Lets all hope that this does not happen again and that Philippe makes a swift recovery.

sherer · 28-07-2009, 10:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kymmy

Personally I don't think that painting the spring/tyre a different color would have saved either driver from the accident.

What they need to do is to figure out ways of keeping loose items within or attached to the vehicle. Wheel tethers needs to be compulsary on any racing event, Surtees might still be alive if that was the case, Wheels need to be secured using a system where the nuts can;t spin off. Also suprised that something like the suspension spring isn't wire wrapped (or an equivelant) to the car..

there was a wheel tether in the Surtees accident it was just the part the tether ties to also came off.

Kymmy · 28-07-2009, 10:10

I thought that after the 2000 Italian GP that tyre tethers would have been fully investigated and now a practical deterent to wheels coming off

When will they learn..

hedgie · 28-07-2009, 10:21

Being positive for once there is a very good article on the Autosport website regarding helmet technology. Five or ten years ago the same incident would probably have been fatal.

It might be in the subscription only area so I wont copy the text, here is a link though.

http://www.autosport.com/features/article.php/id/2300

SnoopZ · 28-07-2009, 10:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by hedgie

Being positive for once there is a very good article on the Autosport website regarding helmet technology. Five or ten years ago the same incident would probably have been fatal.

It might be in the subscription only area so I wont copy the text, here is a link though.

http://www.autosport.com/features/article.php/id/2300

It's in the subscription only area yes.

hedgie · 28-07-2009, 11:07

Sorry my PC logs me in by default.

Will try not to do that again.

The crux of the article is that the FIA pushed for a much more onerous spec for helmets. One of their concerns was reducing weight to minimise neck injury, although the HANS device has helped in this area. The current helmets are lighter yet stronger.

"Mosley claimed that the new helmet could absorb 70% more energy in an impact, as well as being more than 30% more resistant to penetration by sharp objects and up to 30% more effective at preventing rotational injuries. He also said it was 15% lighter than the lightest helmet in use at the time – Mika Hakkinen's 1.43kg Bell".

Kymmy · 28-07-2009, 11:08

I read the article (the joys of being on the media mailing lst) and it's nothing new as to what was reported when Carbon fibre lids came into play.

banjo · 28-07-2009, 11:22

No one can ever make motor sport 100% safe, if you get in a car to go to the shops you are more likely to have an accident or be killed on normal roads, this was a freak accident that cannot be legislated against.

They could put drivers in a pod with a periscope or cameras that give forward and rear views, life has dangers !

hedgie · 28-07-2009, 11:41

Obviously as a biker you will be more informed on this topic than me who takes a helmet at face value having never used one.

I must admit I did find the article a good read, thats all. The FIA seemed to be making a big deal of the inner composition and inclusion of material used in bullet proof vests......................

It does refer work done to finalise their spec. released in 2004 so its not new news, it is just in a new context.

Must get to work now

signing off !

Kymmy · 28-07-2009, 12:12

If Massa can;t return then Schumacher has said that he'd consider replacing him for the rest of the season.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/8172310.stm

Turkey Machine · 28-07-2009, 13:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kymmy

I thought that after the 2000 Italian GP that tyre tethers would have been fully investigated and now a practical deterent to wheels coming off

When will they learn..

Yes, very true. Quite why apparantly the F2 cars didn't appear to have them is a complete mystery, since they're built to 2005 F1 safety regulations.

The only problem with tethers is they're no good if the wheel is not properly attached to the car. It would have been no good in Alonso's case for a tether there, as it's a part of the suspension. Same with Alboreto in Imola 1994.

EDIT: Blimey, when did I hit 1000 posts?!

Kymmy · 28-07-2009, 13:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turkey Machine

The only problem with tethers is they're no good if the wheel is not properly attached to the car. It would have been no good in Alonso's case for a tether there, as it's a part of the suspension. Same with Alboreto in Imola 1994.

Which is why I said that they also need to do wheel nuts that can't spin off, mind you the wheel/brake cover was probably the main culprit in why it span off so fast with Alonso.

PS..congrats on your 1000th post

sherer · 28-07-2009, 13:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turkey Machine

Yes, very true. Quite why apparantly the F2 cars didn't appear to have them is a complete mystery, since they're built to 2005 F1 safety regulations.

The only problem with tethers is they're no good if the wheel is not properly attached to the car. It would have been no good in Alonso's case for a tether there, as it's a part of the suspension. Same with Alboreto in Imola 1994.

EDIT: Blimey, when did I hit 1000 posts?!

The F2 cars do have wheel tethers. The problem is the tether has to attach to something and in some cases, including F1, the part of the car where the tether attaches can come off in an accident. There is so much energy in a crash if it doesn't go somewhere then it will be even worse for the driver.