Football : Season 2011/12

[thenry]

his agent said after meeting Utd that he wants to look at other offers or something. thats hardly promising. i doubt Utd will have trouble offering him a good deal which makes you wonder whether its wages been toyed with or Kagawa wanting to join another club

---------- Post added at 14:34 ---------- Previous post was at 14:23 ----------

Originally Posted by denphone

And thats what you don't want and we don't want the managerial situation vacant at Liverpool to drag on either.

tell you the truth Den Wengers got himself in this mess by mismanagement. a overhaul needs to be undertaken at Arsenal. Every man and his dog knows that. Fans have been asking for extra signings etc. for years but the direction Wenger went in ended in an implosion. i know as an Arsenal fan letting Van Persie go to the Euros with this contract not yet signed is a negative but because the mess at Arsenal is big I personally cant dwell on it. focus is on the overhaul from all angles thats it.

Liverpool do need a manager ASAP to get building for next season. Den what baffles me with Liverpool is your club over spends BIG time. is there not 1 wise head at the club that can see right from wrong. also have you got a scouting network?

tell you the truth Den Wengers got himself in this mess by mismanagement. a overhaul needs to be undertaken at Arsenal. Every man and his dog knows that. Fans have been asking for extra signings etc. for years but the direction Wenger went in ended in an implosion. i know as an Arsenal fan letting Van Persie go to the Euros with this contract not yet signed is a negative but because the mess at Arsenal is big I personally cant dwell on it. focus is on the overhaul from all angles thats it.

The mess at Arsenal isn't big compared to any other club. Stable management situation, decent finances, well prepared for FFP and a new stadium already constructed. There are many in Merseyside who would be envious of such a mess and for whom the 15th consecutive qualification for the Champions League would be an ambition, not a failure.

The direction Wenger took the club was largely forced on him as a result of the strain on finances that resulted from the stadium move. Only in the last few years has there been money to spend. The youth policy he enacted allowed Arsenal to keep the costs of the first team down and it's nothing short of extraordinary that he has continued to keep the club in the European Elite whilst averaging one of the lowest net spends in the Premier League since the construction of the Emirates. Arsenal fans, every man, and their various dogs may want to evaluate their definition of mismanagement because the numbers and the respective achievements explain why Wenger is still one of the most sought managers in European football and why he still commands such respect abroad.

We can agree that the last transfer window was mismanaged, he himself has conceded as much, but we recovered well and are third. The squad needs improvement, some players need to leave, it's a problem but fails short of a mess or serious mismanagement. These terms are warranted at United where, despite their excellent manager, the owners have been creating problem after problem and stifling their inability to compete in the transfer market for no other reason that real mismanagement - not because of infrastructural improvements as was the case with Arsenal. It's merited at Chelsea where managers have been in and out and where they will struggle to be competitive in a post-FFP era. Liverpool never made that stadium move and each year they stall the longer it will be before they can return to their previous status. In fact Spurs are probably the only other well-managed club at the top of the Premier League and they still have to make that stadium move. You may well add Newcastle to that list as well.

I think the problem is the circumstances have changed but some Arsenal fans still expect (not desire, expect) Premier League titles but this is increasingly difficult given the wages and fees that first Chelsea and now City can offer. We are fighting a losing battle there and can only hope that Financial Fair Play will be effective because if it is then we may be able to compete again. Until then expect us to struggle to challenge their dominance.

Still. Wenger is doing pretty dam well all things considered. The future looks good.

[Uncle Peter]

Originally Posted by thenry

also have you got a scouting network?

We no longer have any in-house scouts as the scouting was "outsourced", in other words probably limited to the shifty blagger Comolli watching youtube clips, dvds and playing Football Manager 2012.

Seriously, we don't know. FSG are supposed to have a knowledgable think-tank supporting them, Brian Barwick supposedly being one of the wise heads.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Uncle Peter

We no longer have any in-house scouts as the scouting was "outsourced", in other words probably limited to the shifty blagger Comolli watching youtube clips, dvds and playing Football Manager 2012.

Seriously, we don't know. FSG are supposed to have a knowledgable think-tank supporting them, Brian Barwick supposedly being one of the wise heads.

Mmmmm Barwick a wise head and as for a decent scouting network well we are certainly way behind on that score Peter.

[thenry]

Originally Posted by Damien

The mess at Arsenal isn't big compared to any other club. Stable management situation, decent finances, well prepared for FFP and a new stadium already constructed. There are many in Merseyside who would be envious of such a mess and for whom the 15th consecutive qualification for the Champions League would be an ambition, not a failure.

we're Arsenal not any other club. if we go comparing with negative clubs we'll never move forward. I agree CL qualification has been brilliant but we've been in a position for a few years now where we could push on but we didnt.

Originally Posted by Damien

The direction Wenger took the club was largely forced on him as a result of the strain on finances that resulted from the stadium move. Only in the last few years has there been money to spend. The youth policy he enacted allowed Arsenal to keep the costs of the first team down and it's nothing short of extraordinary that he has continued to keep the club in the European Elite whilst averaging one of the lowest net spends in the Premier League since the construction of the Emirates. Arsenal fans may want to evaluate their definition of mismanagement because the numbers and the respective achievements explain why Wenger is still one of the most sought managers
in European football and why he still commands such respect abroad.

wrong. yes in the couple of years of moving we were somewhat skint but following on from that we gained monies. its funny how your saying there wasnt enough money yet Wengers always said if we had to buy big we could. Plus the man banged out mega contracts. hardly skint or extraordinary. and yes mismanagement has gone on. our stars are fed up playing with average overpaid players. its become a joke wheres players have the nerve to slate the club even though their crap and still be allowed to get away with lack of hunger to play, improve etc.

i think you need to evaluate. we need to move forward not backwards and sideways.

Originally Posted by Damien

We can agree that the last transfer window was mismanaged, he himself has conceded as much, but we recovered well and are third.

yeah ok.

Originally Posted by Damien

I think the problem is the circumstances have changed but some Arsenal fans still expect (not desire, expect) Premier League titles but this is increasingly difficult given the wages and fees that first Chelsea and now City can offer. We are fighting a losing battle there and can only hope that Financial Fair Play will be effective because if it is then we may be able to compete again. Until then expect us to struggle to challenge their dominance.

wrong but you obviously blindly support Wenger and this hype about monies when weve got money to spend.

theres a heck of a lot of players that could make a difference for Arsenal that dont carry massive fees.

Originally Posted by Damien

Still. Wenger is doing pretty dam well all things considered.

yes watching him step backwards and sideways all the while managing to get CL footy is impressive but incredibly frustrating when we could be moving forward.

---------- Post added at 15:43 ---------- Previous post was at 15:41 ----------

Originally Posted by Uncle Peter

We no longer have any in-house scouts as the scouting was "outsourced", in other words probably limited to the shifty blagger Comolli watching youtube clips, dvds and playing Football Manager 2012.

Seriously, we don't know. FSG are supposed to have a knowledgable think-tank supporting them, Brian Barwick supposedly being one of the wise heads.

Originally Posted by denphone

Mmmmm Barwick a wise head and as for a decent scouting network well we are certainly way behind on that score Peter.

buying on hype and spying on other clubs transfer activity isnt the way forward.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by thenry

we're Arsenal not any other club. if we go comparing with negative clubs we'll never move forward. I agree CL qualification has been brilliant but we've been in a position for a few years now where we could push on but we didnt.



wrong. yes in the couple of years of moving we were somewhat skint but following on from that we gained monies. its funny how your saying there wasnt enough money yet Wengers always said if we had to buy big we could. Plus the man banged out mega contracts. hardly skint or extraordinary. and yes mismanagement has gone on. our stars are fed up playing with average overpaid players. its become a joke wheres players have the nerve to slate the club even though their crap and still be allowed to get away with lack of hunger to play, improve etc.

i think you need to evaluate. we need to move forward not backwards and sideways.



yeah ok.



wrong but you obviously blindly support Wenger and this hype about monies when weve got money to spend.

theres a heck of a lot of players that could make a difference for Arsenal that dont carry massive fees.



yes watching him step backwards and sideways all the while managing to get CL footy is impressive but incredibly frustrating when we could be moving forward.

---------- Post added at 15:43 ---------- Previous post was at 15:41 ----------





buying on hype and spying on other clubs transfer activity isnt the way forward.

Yes one or two players we have bought on half a seasons promise but lets be clear every big club in the world keeps a eye on his opponents and Arsenal are no different to Liverpool in that respect.

Originally Posted by Damien

I think the problem is the circumstances have changed but some Arsenal fans still expect (not desire, expect) Premier League titles but this is increasingly difficult given the wages and fees that first Chelsea and now City can offer. We are fighting a losing battle there and can only hope that Financial Fair Play will be effective because if it is then we may be able to compete again. Until then expect us to struggle to challenge their dominance.

Originally Posted by thenry

wrong but you obviously blindly support Wenger and this hype about monies when weve got money to spend.

Sorry where I am I wrong? We came third and people are not happy we didn't challenge for the title? So am I wrong about some of the expectations about what we should achieve or am I wrong that we can't compete with City and Chelsea's resources? We have about £50 million to spend, that includes contracts, according to the AST and Swiss Ramble. That is not going to make City worried.

Stop saying wrong and assuming you speak for the whole fan base. People are allowed differing opinions to you. I go to a majority of home games, am an AST member, and read about the club. I don't enjoy being patronised and lectured at without substance to back up the arguments. People can have differing perceptions around the club.

[thenry]

you think just because City and Chelsea offer huge figures we're somehow brushed aside. theres loads of players out there. we have a network that has many names down as possible incomers. what you say is we can't do anything, you make it sounds as if its impossible. theres ways around not spending big. its been Wenger whos mismanaged.

we have flops at Arsenal that need shifting which will not only bring in some money in transfers but free up a lot of wage spend. that can then be put towards other players.

good for you, I'm sure you'll be made ambassador soon. all you do is blindly support Wenger, you as well as others blow smoke and then wonder why the club is in a mess. In Arsene We Trust, yeah great. its a shame the playing squad, functionality has been neglected and mismanaged for years yet fans who speak of whats needed are ridiculed then what.. those same fans get proven right.

Originally Posted by thenry

good for you, I'm sure you'll be made ambassador soon. all you do is blindly support Wenger, you as well as others blow smoke and then wonder why the club is in a mess. In Arsene We Trust, yeah great. its a shame the playing squad, functionality has been neglected and mismanaged for years

No. I don't blindly support Wenger. That is a aspersion you have made that is unfair and unwarranted. I have criticised the handling of the last transfer window both in my last post and previously on this forum. However I think his record of 15 consecutive Champions League finishes is impressive, only United and Real Madrid have done the same, and he has done it with fewer resources than those clubs - even if you take into account the money that is there that he has yet to spend. It's even more impressive when you consider that money has only recently come available so from 2002 to, say, 2010 he did so without that £50 million being there.

The current squad isn't great. This is largely a result of Fabregas and Nasri leaving in the same summer and Wilshere being out. This year we went into the season with three of our best players from last year gone. We should use this window to improve.

All I do is blindly support Wenger? I'm sorry but you need to back up your arguments rather than question my motivations.

you think just because City and Chelsea offer huge figures we're somehow brushed aside. theres loads of players out there. we have a network that has many names down as possible incomers. what you say is we can't do anything, you make it sounds as if its impossible. theres ways around not spending big. its been Wenger whos mismanaged.

No. I am saying we adjust our expectations. Wenger shouldn't be judged on his ability to win the Premier League because of the resources he is up against. There are ways around that but the richest team won the title this year and Chelsea dominated when they had massive investment in the first team.

[DocDutch]

To be fair arsenal went quite a bit down when dein got the boot from the board and i have to think that the board had too much input in the players and wages they could offer. Another thing like some other clubs we don't have oil money or a billionaire that doesn't mind putting in say 400m into the club.

Wenger is the right manager and yes we have some slackers in the squad and 1 misplaced midfielder that would be better as striker in my eyes

[borrissey]

Hopefully Kagawa joins United

[thenry]

there you go again, we all know our CL participation is brilliant we don't need reminding of that. what we need reminding of is pushing forward. like you say theres money so why not spend it. oh wait lets bang out contracts to average players even though their crap and let them run riot with those silly figures off the field. yeah brilliant management right there.

Nasri left because he was tired of not achieving success, Fab too. you can add other factors into it all you like but the fact is our players that have left were tired of playing with average players. We've now got Van Persie in the same boat, question is where will he end up.

yes you do blindly support Wenger. the man warrants criticism over the way HE has handled things. you not long ago said a overhaul wasnt possible or something, we have to do with the likes of Diaby etc. thats pathetic melting into Wengers hand. these half players we've got are useless. the fact we've got half players as depth is stupid. we could replace them with fighters without breaking the bank. oh no wait, how will they all play. DAMN!!! really?!

so we've got a wage structure that could support a squad full of fighters. we could have a transfer budget big enough to support a overhaul should all the flops be sold but no, not possible, no club will take them. no not possible because they will want to play. no not possible because Wengers got other commitments such as commentary.

I want whats best for Arsenal not whats best for Wenger or 1 or 2 players. We're an elite side able to fight on all fronts if its done correctly.

---------- Post added at 16:40 ---------- Previous post was at 16:37 ----------

Originally Posted by DocDutch

To be fair arsenal went quite a bit down when dein got the boot from the board and i have to think that the board had too much input in the players and wages they could offer. Another thing like some other clubs we don't have oil money or a billionaire that doesn't mind putting in say 400m into the club.

Wenger is the right manager and yes we have some slackers in the squad and 1 misplaced midfielder that would be better as striker in my eyes

its been proven the board didn't have a big hand in whats gone on as some have suggested. the wage bill is a complete mess, thats whats held Arsenal back. Wenger and his stubborn ways.

Dein brought Stan to the clubs attention because of the influence billionaires would have on the league. I'm not entirely sure whether Dein brought him in as security or as a suger daddy. Dein brought loads of players to Arsenal to which they ended up walking out the door untouched. Ribery being one, someone let him go. we had him.

---------- Post added at 16:50 ---------- Previous post was at 16:40 ----------

the board have not had any real hunger for years, they havent got the bottle. it took a grilling at the AGM to wake them all up. funny how Dein brought Stan to the clubs attention, got ousted and the board were sticking their fingers up at everyone left, right and center including fans, PHW the dinosaur! then because Dein got ousted and got treated unfairly he sold his shares to the Russian billionaire. that then prompted Arsenals board to wake up and look at things and surprise surprise, they went with Stan. Why didn't they go for another security outlet. the whole board havent got the bottle, they've left Wenger to ruin himself, he hasn't had support which was Dein. the whole things a joke. thats why I get vexed when people settle for players like Diaby. the overhaul, the problems are deep at Arsenal which need sorting out. the AST heads even know this but keep silent because of the dinosaur that is PHW.

Originally Posted by thenry

there you go again, we all know our CL participation is brilliant we don't need reminding of that. what we need reminding of is pushing forward. like you say theres money so why not spend it. oh wait lets bang out contracts to average players even though their crap and let them run riot with those silly figures off the field. yeah brilliant management right there.

Then why doesn't the Champions League participation factor into the discussion? That's a massive achievement and is evidence that Wenger is not mismanaging the club. We are spending the money, Podoski is already here before the transfer window is even open. More should have been spent last summer, which I have already conceded and criticised Wenger for, however I think he has redeemed himself in the end with the final position of the team.

Nasri left because he was tired of not achieving success

Doubling his wages may also have helped.

yes you do blindly support Wenger.

I don't however. As I have repeated three times now and you continue to fail to back it up. I keep mentioning it today.

oh no wait, how will they all play. DAMN!!! really?!

You need to calm down. I have not made any personal remarks about you or your motivations but you have failed to extend the same courtesy to me.

[thenry]

Originally Posted by Damien

Then why doesn't the Champions League participation factor into the discussion? That's a massive achievement and is evidence that Wenger is not mismanaging the club. We are spending the money, Podoski is already here before the transfer window is even open. More should have been spent last summer, which I have already conceded and criticised Wenger for, however I think he has redeemed himself in the end with the final position of the team.

if we as fans keep going on about CL then we wont move forward. wenger will keep saying the same thing and be stuck in his ways. yes we've luckily got to 3rd this year with Tottenham loving a cock up.

Originally Posted by Damien

Doubling his wages may also have helped.

of course that factors in, but what if we had a solid team, not those average half arsed players? we would have been 1 much stronger obviously, 2 had a very good chance of lifting trophies and 3 would players then leaving be as big as a blow if they went because of wanting more money? no because we'd be in the mind set of replacing with quality to push us on. that hasn't happened. we've moved backwards and sideways. 4 would players actually want to move with the club their at being successful? that could go either way, the good old new challenge quotes may be.

Originally Posted by Damien

I don't however. As I have repeated three times now and you continue to fail to back it up. I keep mentioning it today.

you've blindly supported Wenger Damien. you've even taken shots at me for not when you fail to understand why I don't support him at the moment with the issues at Arsenal.

Originally Posted by Damien

You need to calm down. I have not made any personal remarks about you or your motivations but you have failed to extend the same courtesy to me.

because you support Wenger too much, he doesn't warrant it. I'll be the first to drop this front if the overhaul is complete. theres a lot of work that needs to be done. the CL thing can be boasted about to other fans but within discussions to do with Arsenal moving forward it should be left aside. thankfully we got it this year so now Wenger has a chance, a last chance in my opinion to correct things. he's all done riding out his luck

[denphone]

Martinez & Rodgers Set for Reds Interviews, AVB Open to Talks.

http://www.kopsource.com/martinez-ro...open-to-talks/

Liverpool are set to hold talks with Wigan boss Roberto Martinez next week, while Brendan Rodgers is also understood to have been invited for an interview.

Wigan chairman Dave Whelan has given the Reds permission to talk to their manager regarding the possibility of replacing Kenny Dalglish, but not all Liverpool fans have responded well to the prospect of a manager whose only notable top-flight achievements have been avoiding relegation.