30-12-2023, 10:46
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#5791
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Sulking in the Corner
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: RG41
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh
The link repeated what you said - it didn’t confirm it with evidence…
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At least OB expresses definite views. Whereas others just like to prod him wit their picador sticks. You know who you are as do I.
This isn’t a court of law and hiding behind a demand for proof is ridiculous (generally).
__________________
Seph.
My advice is at your risk.
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30-12-2023, 10:46
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#5792
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Architect of Ideas
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,438
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Re: Britain outside the EU
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This will be the situation for years to come. As far away as 2026, UBS expects the UK to grow by 1.3pc and the eurozone by 1.1pc, while Germany is the laggard on 0.9pc.
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Guessing then.
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30-12-2023, 10:50
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#5793
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laeva recumbens anguis
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 67
Services: Premiere Collection
Posts: 42,148
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth
At least OB expresses definite views. Whereas others just like to prod him wit their picador sticks. You know who you are as do I.
This isn’t a court of law and hiding behind a demand for proof is ridiculous (generally).
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I’ve expressed a definite view that Redwood is a cross-dressing secret Labour supporter - I haven’t seen you deny it…
__________________
There is always light.
If only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
If my post is in bold and this colour, it's a Moderator Request.
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30-12-2023, 12:26
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#5794
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Rise above the players
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wokingham
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh
The link repeated what you said - it didn’t confirm it with evidence…
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Obviously that WAS the evidence that there was disquiet in the Conservative Party about the political bias of civil servants. It’s not for me to prove whether they are right or wrong about that. I was pointing out that such disquiet existed. That is all.
Do you think we could actually discuss the topic?
__________________
Forumbox.co.uk
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30-12-2023, 12:58
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#5795
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laeva recumbens anguis
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 67
Services: Premiere Collection
Posts: 42,148
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
Obviously that WAS the evidence that there was disquiet in the Conservative Party about the political bias of civil servants. It’s not for me to prove whether they are right or wrong about that. I was pointing out that such disquiet existed. That is all.
Do you think we could actually discuss the topic?
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Not what you said…
You stated in post #5738
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
The civil service is left-leaning and anti-Brexit anyway. This change from the neutrality they once adopted will eventually bite them in the bum when new governments bring in their own administrations to help them develop and roll out their policies.
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Your proposition is circular and self-referential - the purported evidence that "the civil service is left-leaning and anti-Brexit anyway." is that the Conservative Party and Cabinet Ministers think it is…
It’s hard to discuss a topic when there’s no basis except "the Conservative Party think so"…
__________________
There is always light.
If only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
If my post is in bold and this colour, it's a Moderator Request.
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30-12-2023, 13:19
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#5796
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Sulking in the Corner
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh
I’ve expressed a definite view that Redwood is a cross-dressing secret Labour supporter - I haven’t seen you deny it…
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You're being sillier than usual. Have you noting worthwhile to opine about UK outside the EU?
__________________
Seph.
My advice is at your risk.
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30-12-2023, 17:22
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#5797
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Rise above the players
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Posts: 14,616
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh
Not what you said…
You stated in post #5738
Your proposition is circular and self-referential - the purported evidence that "the civil service is left-leaning and anti-Brexit anyway." is that the Conservative Party and Cabinet Ministers think it is…
It’s hard to discuss a topic when there’s no basis except "the Conservative Party think so"…
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What a ridiculous comment!
There has been enough written about that bias, and having worked alongside civil servants myself, I think it is spot on. It was not always like that - they used to be genuinely neutral.
I don’t need to provide a link to everything I say, and nor does anyone. Even when I do, you and your mates try to discredit the source or find some other excuse to discredit it.
If you disagree with anyone on here, why not simply debate it instead of trying to suppress an opinion?
The subject is Britain outside the EU. Can we get back to that, please?
__________________
Forumbox.co.uk
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30-12-2023, 18:31
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#5798
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Still alive and fighting
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: In the land of beyond and beyond.
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Posts: 56,330
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
What a ridiculous comment!
There has been enough written about that bias, and having worked alongside civil servants myself, I think it is spot on. It was not always like that - they used to be genuinely neutral.
I don’t need to provide a link to everything I say, and nor does anyone. Even when I do, you and your mates try to discredit the source or find some other excuse to discredit it.
If you disagree with anyone on here, why not simply debate it instead of trying to suppress an opinion?
The subject is Britain outside the EU. Can we get back to that, please?
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Despite your obvious overtly bias protestations Civil Servants are genuinely neutral whatever government is in power.
Prove otherwise...
__________________
“The only lesson you can learn from history is that it repeats itself”
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30-12-2023, 18:39
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#5799
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Rise above the players
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone
Despite your obvious overtly bias protestations Civil Servants are genuinely neutral whatever government is in power.
Prove otherwise...
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My own personal experience over 57 years is all the proof I need. I’ve seen it for myself.
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Forumbox.co.uk
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30-12-2023, 18:50
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#5800
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The Dark Satanic Mills
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: floating in the ether
Posts: 12,071
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone
Despite your obvious overtly bias protestations Civil Servants are genuinely neutral whatever government is in power.
Prove otherwise...
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Steve Hilton that worked for David Cameron, say otherwise.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/24Yhbe4gzaApXFXQYcyXVW
Prove he’s wrong.
__________________
The wheel's still turning but the hamsters dead.
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30-12-2023, 19:02
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#5801
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Dr Pepper Addict
Cable Forum Team
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Civil Servants themselves are not going to be "neutral", they will have personal views, just like everyone else.
What they should be doing is performing their duties in a 'neutral' manner, regardless of who is giving the instructions (i.e. in power).
__________________
 Baby, I was born this way.
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30-12-2023, 20:53
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#5802
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Architect of Ideas
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,438
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre
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I just wasted an hour of my life for him to say - somewhere around 10 mins from the end - he found his encounters with the civil service to be professional and he didn't think they were on a crusade to subvert the Government.
He invokes Blair a number of times as some kind of shield for his own views for smaller Government/less civil servants. What struck me throughout is that seemingly neither he, nor politicians, had realistic expectations of how Government actually works.
He gives an example at the start where they looked at Government announcements over a week - 30% in the coalition agreement, and the other 70% in a 40/30 split between EU directives and things outside the coalition agreement. The EU directives, rightly or wrongly, were the constitutional arrangement at the time. The rest will be legislation or programmes that existed before that Government came to power.
The whole point of a Civil Service is to manage the transition. Governments don't come to power on day 1 with a clean slate - there will be baked in commitments and funding for programmes or projects that will date from before (and in some cases, go on after) Governments come and go. Ministers have to decide whether to stop those - civil servants can't just abandon them of their own accord.
The segment on immigration was quite funny, it seamlessly transitioned from illegal immigration to immigration and ignored that the vast majority of immigration (and thus, Conservative governments failure to control net migration) is legal migration. He almost gets to the point that politicians shouldn't lie to the electorate on the campaign, but never quite says it.
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30-12-2023, 23:20
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#5803
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Rise above the players
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wokingham
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Posts: 14,616
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Re: Britain outside the EU
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul
Civil Servants themselves are not going to be "neutral", they will have personal views, just like everyone else.
What they should be doing is performing their duties in a 'neutral' manner, regardless of who is giving the instructions (i.e. in power).
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Yes. I don't disagree.
__________________
Forumbox.co.uk
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31-12-2023, 19:44
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#5804
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laeva recumbens anguis
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 67
Services: Premiere Collection
Posts: 42,148
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Re: Britain outside the EU
https://x.com/kemibadenoch/status/17...Fx9lsEXWlOa1jg
https://www.gov.uk/government/public...united-kingdom
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the Participants, in the spirit of promoting closer relationships, intend to further support and work co-operatively within the boundaries of existing laws and treaties in their respective jurisdictions on goals and issues as set forth below.
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This MOU is not legally binding under state, national, or international law and does not create any legal obligation to carry out or to financially support any activity.
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The U.S. Constitution, through the Commerce Clause, gives Congress exclusive power over trade activities between the states and with foreign countries…
__________________
There is always light.
If only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
If my post is in bold and this colour, it's a Moderator Request.
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31-12-2023, 19:52
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#5805
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cf.geek
Join Date: Sep 2022
Posts: 618
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Re: Britain outside the EU
I was complaining in a private forum about Jersey banks for leaks to EU/USA and then, I got this from a wealth advisor
You can employ "funnelling" involving bearer bonds purchased through offshore nominees, placed in a tax haven, and redeemed upon the submission of "invoices" from a shell company. Subsequently, these funds are channeled into the "UK," through Channel Islands or Isle of Man deposit accounts, without being registered in the name of the ultimate recipient until they are collected by designated representatives. Cost 2%-5%
Unbelievable. You learn something new every day!
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