Britain outside the EU

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

That's incorrect. You're conflating two separate matters.

There's a couple of quick wins here - an agreement on the recognition of professional qualifications and striking a veterinary agreement with the EU to reduce costly and onerous border checks. Doubtless more too.

Not according to press reports. Here’s one from The Guardian.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...nnel-crossings

[EXTRACT]

…Starmer conceded that Labour could strike a deal to accept a quota of asylum seekers from the EU in exchange for closer cooperation to tackle people smugglers.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Not according to press reports. Here’s one from The Guardian.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...nnel-crossings

[EXTRACT]

…Starmer conceded that Labour could strike a deal to accept a quota of asylum seekers from the EU in exchange for closer cooperation to tackle people smugglers.

That's not about upgrading our poor Brexit trade deal, it's about an arrangement on migration.

[Ms NTL]

Originally Posted by ianch99

Looking to launder a lot of money?

LoL....

Anglo-Irish bank: NEVER-NEVER let us down like the Swiss banks. They never gave our names to EU. The bank paid the tax and penalties due to EU on our behalf, but it did not disclose our names to EU or UK!

And yes, I am aware that it was closed down for corruption. What a pity.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

That's not about upgrading our poor Brexit trade deal, it's about an arrangement on migration.

Haha! My post was an example of how far Starmer will go to ingratiate himself to the EU. The electorate won't be fooled, but some on thos forum will be, until it happens.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Haha! My post was an example of how far Starmer will go to ingratiate himself to the EU. The electorate won't be fooled, but some on thos forum will be, until it happens.

I was going by what you posted which was erroneously trying to link an improvement to the trade deal to a deal on immigration.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Haha! My post was an example of how far Starmer will go to ingratiate himself to the EU. The electorate won't be fooled, but some on thos forum will be, until it happens.

Far from being fooled almost everyone accepts that what little the UK has to offer the world is letting people in. Name a trade deal - visas will be on the table.

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I was going by what you posted which was erroneously trying to link an improvement to the trade deal to a deal on immigration.

You look at things far too narrowly, Andrew. I get what you’re saying, but what is to stop the EU saying “We’ll agree to discuss a new deal if you agree to take a share of our immigrants”?

My point was that Starmer would cave. Labour is the party of multiculturalism, which they believe will enhance their electoral prospects.

We should be in no doubt about what a Labour government will bring if the nation decides ‘it’s time for a change’.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

You look at things far too narrowly, Andrew. I get what you’re saying, but what is to stop the EU saying “We’ll agree to discuss a new deal if you agree to take a share of our immigrants”?

My point was that Starmer would cave. Labour is the party of multiculturalism, which they believe will enhance their electoral prospects.

We should be in no doubt about what a Labour government will bring if the nation decides ‘it’s time for a change’.

This, absolutely, is the basis for every trade deal anywhere regardless of which party is in power.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

You look at things far too narrowly, Andrew. I get what you’re saying, but what is to stop the EU saying “We’ll agree to discuss a new deal if you agree to take a share of our immigrants”?

My point was that Starmer would cave. Labour is the party of multiculturalism, which they believe will enhance their electoral prospects.

We should be in no doubt about what a Labour government will bring if the nation decides ‘it’s time for a change’.

Says the CCHQ regular media spokesman...

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

You look at things far too narrowly, Andrew. I get what you’re saying, but what is to stop the EU saying “We’ll agree to discuss a new deal if you agree to take a share of our immigrants”?

My point was that Starmer would cave. Labour is the party of multiculturalism, which they believe will enhance their electoral prospects.

We should be in no doubt about what a Labour government will bring if the nation decides ‘it’s time for a change’.

Whilst the Labour party might aspire to be this, in reality the Conservative Party is the successful party of multicultarism and well done to them for achieving that. We have a Prime Minister with East African-born Hindu parents of Indian Punjabi descent. A Home Secretary whose parents come from Mauritius and Kenya. And a Business Secretary who described herself "to all intents and purposes a first-generation immigrant".

What will be in no doubt that a Labour government brings? The current government is set to receive a million immigrants? Are you worried it might actually reduce this figure?

---------- Post added at 10:37 ---------- Previous post was at 10:06 ----------

More Brexit costs incoming.

New Brexit border checks to cost business £320mn a year

Minister’s letter to Labour MP sets out government forecast as companies warn of food price rises

The confirmation from Cabinet Office minister Baroness Lucy Neville-Rolfe in a letter to a Labour MP follows repeated warnings from the logistics and food industry that the new border checks would drive up food prices.

“It will depend greatly on how businesses adapt their business models and supply chains to integrate the new controls regimes. We estimate these new costs of the model at £330mn p.a [per annum] overall, across all EU imports,” she wrote in the letter, seen by the Financial Times.

From January European businesses exporting animal and plant products to the UK will be required to submit additional paperwork — export health certificates — with physical checks costing up to £43 a time being introduced from April 2024.

https://www.ft.com/content/015e1f25-...d-bf9ec0dc4678

British exporters face hefty EU carbon tax bill after Sunak weakens climate policies

UK carbon market collapse lets Brussels benefit from revenues that would previously have gone to Treasury

Rishi Sunak’s weakening of UK climate targets has left British exporters facing hundreds of millions of pounds in EU carbon border taxes within the next decade — revenues that otherwise would have flowed to the Treasury.

The UK carbon market, which sets the price large manufacturers and energy companies must pay for every tonne of CO₂ released, has collapsed after the Conservative government weakened a number of green initiatives.

UK emissions prices have fallen to less than half the EU equivalent in recent months, having previously traded near parity.

The EU’s forthcoming carbon border tax regime will seek to penalise countries with substantially lower carbon costs than the bloc’s. As a result, the drop in UK emissions prices means that British exporters to the EU will become liable for the EU tax when it comes into force in 2026.

The lower emissions price also means that the UK Treasury will generate less revenue from carbon pricing; in effect the changes will divert a portion of companies’ carbon bills from Westminster to Brussels.

“UK industry will still be paying for emissions on exports to the EU, but instead of taxes going to the Treasury, they will be heading to Brussels, which has earmarked these revenues for further investment into renewable industries,” said Marcus Ferdinand, chief analytics officer at carbon consultancy Veyt.

From Sunday exporters to the EU will have to start recording carbon emissions embedded in their products as the early trial period for the EU’s carbon border adjustment mechanism, known as CBAM, begins.

With more than 40 per cent of UK electricity still generated by burning gas or coal, a similar portion of the CBAM levy will be applied to all UK electricity imports, as the EU cannot easily tell whether imported power came from clean or dirty sources, industry body Energy UK warned.

“It’s a really big problem as UK wind farms that had planned to send a lot of what they generate to the EU on very windy days could find themselves priced out of the market,” said Adam Berman, deputy director at Energy UK.

https://www.ft.com/content/53e91aab-...d-19b9ee915baa

[OLD BOY]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-66971372

[EXTRACT]

A key part of the Windsor Framework has been implemented with the start of a new system for moving goods from Great Britain to Northern Ireland.
The framework, which was agreed by the EU and UK in February, is the revised post-Brexit deal for Northern Ireland.

It is intended to ease trade between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK.

The most visible change will be 'Not for EU' labelling appearing on some food products in NI shops.

That labelling change is due to be rolled out across the rest of the UK next year.

Northern Ireland Secretary Chris Heaton-Harris said the new system would mean "the substantial majority" of trade from GB to NI will be "treated as UK internal trade".

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Whilst the Labour party might aspire to be this, in reality the Conservative Party is the successful party of multicultarism and well done to them for achieving that. We have a Prime Minister with East African-born Hindu parents of Indian Punjabi descent. A Home Secretary whose parents come from Mauritius and Kenya. And a Business Secretary who described herself "to all intents and purposes a first-generation immigrant".

<SNIP>

Just addressing your first point, which I find to be rather shallow.

1/
Multiculturalism is insufficiently defined in this forum for having a debate that doesn’t talk at cross-purposes. So I’ll attempt a sort of definition so that we can coalesce and/or debate it coherently.

2/
I’ll start with British culture, which is entwined with social structure. Our social structure has been hundreds of years in the making is well understood by British Judaeo-Christians. Brits do not want to lose this.

3/
Which cultures present in the UK do not disrupt nor threaten British culture? Based on observation, the Chinese/East Asian culture, bears no adverse force on British culture. I’ve also observed integration due to inter-marriage. My recent long visit to Australia bears out my benign sentiment.

Next, the Indian culture: There is more than one culture (as in Sikh, Hindu, Tamil etc). More so than the Chinese, they seem to group themselves into community districts where they build community facilities according to their culture. Interestingly, they seek out the best state secondary schools, move into those areas (as diaspora hence potential for greater integration) and then make sure their children study diligently to pass the selection tests. One such school, Kendrick in Reading, is dominated by Indian girls (according to my observation). I personally think that this leads to inequalities because non-Indians are effectively excluded. So this community, if it grows any larger, does potentially threaten our social structure. See Fiji and Mauritius for models.

Next, there are the knife cultures. I won’t name them because it’ll get the woke lefties going - but reasonable people know who they are. They are dangerous, because they are antithetical to British culture, by definition intolerant, and pretty much dedicated to destroying our social order.

4/
Laid out as above, we can be more specific as to which mix of cultures works and which doesn’t. The blanket use of the term is dangerous and polarising. Naming individuals as Andrew has done, holding them up to be examples of good multiculturalism needs to be qualified by the forced bearing down on us from dangerous cultures.

"British Judeo-Christians"…

Since, until recently, most European (including British) Christians persecuted and discriminated against Jewish people, I find it ironic you try to merge the two faiths as a homogeneous justifier- you’re just parroting Farage…

https://theconversation.com/why-jude...ar-right-85922

Time and again, when Farage and Trump use the term, what they really imply is an “us-versus-them” division between the West and Islam. This is not about the inclusion of Jews in the values of these nations, then, but about the xenophobic exclusion of an “other”.

Invoked in anti-immigration rhetoric with the goal of excluding Muslims, this phrase is actually used to scaffold a false narrative about Christians being persecuted, threatened or besieged, which gives motivation for the protection of “Judeo-Christian values”. In fact, Christians are not persecuted in the countries where Farage and Trump make their homes.

Supersessionism

A quick search on Twitter for the phrase “Judeo-Christian” illustrates that white supremacists have embraced the term – and that Jews reject it.

It’s not surprising that many Jews are not falling for this dog-whistle phrase, especially since the myth of a Judeo-Christian society rests on the false – and dangerous – idea that Judaism and Christianity hold the same ideas and values.

There are many fundamental differences between these two religions – and that’s OK. To respect and value Judaism means to do so on its own terms, and not only if it conforms to Christian ideas about what religion should be. Ignoring these differences (and to pretend that Jews and Christians believe the same things) risks subsuming Judaism into Christianity. It risks viewing Judaism as an archaic precursor to Christianity rather than a continuing unique and vibrant tradition.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Hugh

"British Judeo-Christians"…

Since, until recently, most European (including British) Christians persecuted and discriminated against Jewish people, I find it ironic you try to merge the two faiths as a homogeneous justifier- you’re just parroting Farage…

https://theconversation.com/why-jude...ar-right-85922

You're just being awkward. Everyone, including you, know what I mean.

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

You're just being awkward. Everyone, including you, know what I mean.

From the Chronicles of Rishi thread, three days ago…