The energy crisis

[Jaymoss]

Originally Posted by Inactive Digital

And what happens to those moving into their first homes in 2023 - are they expected to pay an additional £40 per year despite not getting the benefit? What if someone takes the £200 in October then closes their account and their partner/housemate etc opens a new account. There seems to be loopholes in this.

Yeah I think I may well change my name in 2023 hahaha

From how Martins post reads new buyers first time tenants could well find themselves with a £40 levy and never actually had the £200. It is a terrible plan

[1andrew1]

Would have been more straightforward if they'd put Universal Credit up and removed the VAT. However, the Conservative Party placed VAT on fuel in the first place, so I think their strategy is to tax it.

[Jaymoss]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Would have been more straightforward if they'd put Universal Credit up and removed the VAT. However, the Conservative Party placed VAT on fuel in the first place, so I think their strategy is to tax it.

So those on ESA would have to miss out and wait on a court case to see if they should get the UC uplift after the DWP says it is too difficult to do it

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Jaymoss

So those on ESA would have to miss out and wait on a court case to see if they should get the UC uplift after the DWP says it is too difficult to do it

Universal Credit was uplifted temporarily during the pandemic. I can't see why this can't be done again.

[Jaymoss]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Universal Credit was uplifted temporarily during the pandemic. I can't see why this can't be done again.

Yes it was but those on legacy benefits were left worse off than those on UC as the DWP said it was too difficult to give the uplift to those on legacy benefits. There has been a court case on this matter and we are awaiting a judgement.

So as I said those on ESA would miss out on any payment if it was done through UC so not quite as simple as you seem to be making out

[nomadking]

If any discount is tied to the account number, then will any change(even from PAYG meter to credit) wipe out the debt?
Power bills are per household, not per person, so using benefits wouldn't be the appropriate way to do it.
Crediting PAYG meters is easy. Just use the same mechanism as for the Warm Homes Discount. The problem comes with recovering the £200 over time. That might be best done by a surcharge on the standing charge. May be unfair to those who didn't get the £200, but not sure there is any other way. An 11p per day extra would appear large compared to the real underlying standing charge.

Other complications exist, such as bedsits or flats in a single building with a single power bill paid by the landlord. Each flat/bedsit would get the council tax reduction, but not the £200 each.

---------- Post added at 17:33 ---------- Previous post was at 17:29 ----------

Originally Posted by Jaymoss

Yes it was but those on legacy benefits were left worse off than those on UC as the DWP said it was too difficult to give the uplift to those on legacy benefits. There has been a court case on this matter and we are awaiting a judgement.

So as I said those on ESA would miss out on any payment if it was done through UC so not quite as simple as you seem to be making out

I don't understand why they couldn't have amended the basic IS/JSA/ESA etc payment by £20, the same way as the annual increase.

[Jaymoss]

Originally Posted by nomadking

If any discount is tied to the account number, then will any change(even from PAYG meter to credit) wipe out the debt?
Power bills are per household, not per person, so using benefits wouldn't be the appropriate way to do it.
Crediting PAYG meters is easy. Just use the same mechanism as for the Warm Homes Discount. The problem comes with recovering the £200 over time. That might be best done by a surcharge on the standing charge. May be unfair to those who didn't get the £200, but not sure there is any other way. An 11p per day extra would appear large compared to the real underlying standing charge.

Other complications exist, such as bedsits or flats in a single building with a single power bill paid by the landlord. Each flat/bedsit would get the council tax reduction, but not the £200 each.

---------- Post added at 17:33 ---------- Previous post was at 17:29 ----------


I don't understand why they couldn't have amended the basic IS/JSA/ESA etc payment by £20, the same way as the annual increase.

Hopefully the courts will back that up

What other European countries are doing.

https://www.reuters.com/business/ene...ts-2022-02-03/

[Mad Max]

They don't really need to worry much in Spain imo, a good bit warmer there than here.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Mad Max

They don't really need to worry much in Spain imo, a good bit warmer there than here.

The bigger issue is how much electricity is generated using gas. That is the problem the UK and certain other countries(eg Germany) have.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by GrimUpNorth

I think you're right about privatisation, it's always seemed fundamentally wrong to try and make a profit (for shareholders) out of a public service. Another thing where we probably went wrong was not following the lead of other oil and gas producing countries and establishing a sovereign wealth fund from the profits to give us an income when the oil dollars dry up.

Absolutely.

[Mad Max]

Originally Posted by nomadking

The bigger issue is how much electricity is generated using gas. That is the problem the UK and certain other countries(eg Germany) have.

Yeah, good point.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by nomadking

I don't understand why they couldn't have amended the basic IS/JSA/ESA etc payment by £20, the same way as the annual increase.

Exactly.

[Jaymoss]

Originally Posted by nomadking

I don't understand why they couldn't have amended the basic IS/JSA/ESA etc payment by £20, the same way as the annual increase.

The DWP blagged that it was too complicated for the system. With a bit of luck and a following wind the judgement will come in favour of those on legacy benefits and the DWP forced to cough up a nice £1500 each

Originally Posted by Hugh

Not sure the Energy Loan/Levy has been fully thought through…

Nor has what he says there ...
What exactly does he mean by "Every" Bill ?
Bulb bill me monthly, are they going to take £200 off "every" monthly bill ?
(I sure hope so )