Your predictions under Labour

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by ianch99

To you maybe. Most people would not discuss the term Wealth tax in the same sentence as "if person A earns a £100 and invests it"

Maybe they should.

---------- Post added at 17:09 ---------- Previous post was at 17:02 ----------

Originally Posted by Mr K

Because you want things like the NHS, schools, roads defence etc...
.

All of which are in a right state, because the money they take is not spent wisely, because it’s not theirs, it’s ours.

If the existing tax and spend was managed correctly, we probably wouldn’t need to increase tax or tax people multiple times…………but that’s probably a different discussion.

A few things are happening now:

• Looks like they might release a load of prisoners with more than half their sentence remaining to free up space
• Ban on wind farms revoked - they'll also take the power away from local councils to decide if they're built
• A load of new town developments which were on hold will be built
• They've overruled a few councils' decisions not to build data centres and given approval themselves

The main trend so far is a very aggressive approach forcing things to be built.

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by Damien

A few things are happening now:

• Looks like they might release a load of prisoners with more than half their sentence remaining to free up space
• Ban on wind farms revoked - they'll also take the power away from local councils to decide if they're built
• A load of new town developments which were on hold will be built
• They've overruled a few councils' decisions not to build data centres and given approval themselves

The main trend so far is a very aggressive approach forcing things to be built.

Are you aware if bullets 2 & 4 are applicable to Wales, we also have a ban by Welsh Labour on building any roads.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Mr K

Because you want things like the NHS, schools, roads defence etc...

If not from here it has to come room somewhere else. Where do you suggest? Income tax, vat, council tax? You'll pay one way or another.

Raise the price of tax on alcohol ? Raise fuel duty ? Introduce fines for people who deliberately fail to attend drs appointments? Go after large companies who are avoiding paying tax. Stop wasting so much of the public coffers on nonsense projects (like HS2)

Originally Posted by Escapee

Are you aware if bullets 2 & 4 are applicable to Wales, we also have a ban by Welsh Labour on building any roads.

Not sure. Maybe not then. Also not sure about Scotland.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Damien

Not sure. Maybe not then. Also not sure about Scotland.

The planning system is devolved, but I think 2 and 4 align with Scottish Government positions.

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by Damien

Not sure. Maybe not then. Also not sure about Scotland.

The detail for Wales is never clear.

There's currently a windfarm proposal locally, so I'm guessing the rules of the last government didn't apply to Wales.

https://mynydd-llanhilleth.co.uk/wp-...eaflet-eng.pdf

We used to look out of the window at work in the Blackwood area in South Wales. I can't remember if it was five or six we could see, but it was surprising how often none of them were turning and usually less than half were turning.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

Sorry, I agree with others , if I’ve worked to earn the money and already paid tax/NI then if I choose to invest it why exactly should I be taxed again ?

I’m getting very tired of HMRC spanking me at every opportunity not even interest on my savings is safe

You misunderstand my point. I am not suggesting taxing your money twice and again, this point does not apply to 95+% of the population unless your net worth is in the tens of £millions

If you have large amounts of capital, assets, etc. that increase in value or generate income then you should pay tax on these increases at the rate everyone else does. Why should a multi millionaire/billionaire have an effective tax rate of a fraction of, for example, a nurse or care worker.

Release a load of prisoners ?
I guess it didnt take long for madness to kick in.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by ianch99

You misunderstand my point. I am not suggesting taxing your money twice and again, this point does not apply to 95+% of the population unless your net worth is in the tens of £millions

If you have large amounts of capital, assets, etc. that increase in value or generate income then you should pay tax on these increases at the rate everyone else does. Why should a multi millionaire/billionaire have an effective tax rate of a fraction of, for example, a nurse or care worker.

It does not take earning tens of millions to get you taxed twice.

You could be earning 35k per year and get RSU’s in a startup and you’re getting hit for tax on the RSU’s NI AND employers NI

To answer your question re millionaire vs nurse
The millionaire has zero personal tax allowance and pays tax on every penny of their paye income at varying rates (so that’s 45% on 850k of their earnings)

A nurse earning £40k per year pays 0 zero tax on the first £12.5k and 20% on the rest


The millionaire has paid £382,500 JUST at the 45% level

Just how much do you want ????

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Damien

A few things are happening now:

[LIST][*]Looks like they might release a load of prisoners with more than half their sentence remaining to free up space

This needs to be looked at sensibly.
In my opinion, only violent offenders definitely need a custodial sentence.

Then arguments can be made for those that cause damage, repeat offenders etc.

But a lot of people can be dealt without being jailed.

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

It does not take earning tens of millions to get you taxed twice.

You could be earning 35k per year and get RSU’s in a startup and you’re getting hit for tax on the RSU’s NI AND employers NI

To answer your question re millionaire vs nurse
The millionaire has zero personal tax allowance and pays tax on every penny of their paye income at varying rates (so that’s 45% on 850k of their earnings)

A nurse earning £40k per year pays 0 zero tax on the first £12.5k and 20% on the rest


The millionaire has paid £382,500 JUST at the 45% level

Just how much do you want ????

I have asked one of my former school friends who's very left wing how much tax does he think is fair, but I have been unable to get an answer. I get the impression that he thinks that anyone earning more than him should be taxed until they earn the same as he does.

He's always obsessed with how much tax other people are paying. He started on about me and my work and not knowing anything about what I'm doing and he was making a lot of assumptions.

I told him that I don't work at that place these days, I started my own business. If the situation had been reversed and he had said the to me, I would have said something along the lines of "I hope that works out for you", but his angry reply was "I hope you are paying the correct amount of tax". I explained that that was between me, my accountant and HMRC which seemed to anger him more. I suppose he doesn't personally know anyone who is rich, so someone earning more than him is his nearest target.

I do have a good memory though, I don't suppose he remembers boasting about taking his sleeping bag into work when he worked in nationalised industry, and I don't suppose he considered it as ripping off the tax payer either.

[Itshim]

Originally Posted by Escapee

I have asked one of my former school friends who's very left wing how much tax does he think is fair, but I have been unable to get an answer. I get the impression that he thinks that anyone earning more than him should be taxed until they earn the same as he does.

He's always obsessed with how much tax other people are paying. He started on about me and my work and not knowing anything about what I'm doing and he was making a lot of assumptions.

I told him that I don't work at that place these days, I started my own business. If the situation had been reversed and he had said the to me, I would have said something along the lines of "I hope that works out for you", but his angry reply was "I hope you are paying the correct amount of tax". I explained that that was between me, my accountant and HMRC which seemed to anger him more. I suppose he doesn't personally know anyone who is rich, so someone earning more than him is his nearest target.

I do have a good memory though, I don't suppose he remembers boasting about taking his sleeping bag into work when he worked in nationalised industry, and I don't suppose he considered it as ripping off the tax payer either.

Don't care get a good accountant worth every penny

[Escapee]

Originally Posted by Itshim

Don't care get a good accountant worth every penny

I have done, and I'm glad I did.

I put money away every month last year for what I estimated I would owe HMRC. I was pleasantly surprised when I got nearly £2k appear in my bank account as a refund from HMRC.

[ianch99]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

It does not take earning tens of millions to get you taxed twice.

You could be earning 35k per year and get RSU’s in a startup and you’re getting hit for tax on the RSU’s NI AND employers NI

To answer your question re millionaire vs nurse
The millionaire has zero personal tax allowance and pays tax on every penny of their paye income at varying rates (so that’s 45% on 850k of their earnings)

A nurse earning £40k per year pays 0 zero tax on the first £12.5k and 20% on the rest


The millionaire has paid £382,500 JUST at the 45% level

Just how much do you want ????

You really are not listening here. I am not talking about PAYE earnings which a lot of high net worth individuals do not receive in meaningful terms. I know about RSU's, I get them and I pay an effective tax rate of over 50% on them. Again, I am not talking about the people who receive taxed at source income.

Here's an article that covers this problem: https://www.lse.ac.uk/research/resea...ich-really-pay

Where you get your money from (or at least how you package it) matters, because investment income and capital gains are taxed at lower rates than income from work

This survey was done in 2015-2016. The wealth inequality has increases markedly since then. So back to my point:

Using anonymised data from personal tax returns, we show that in 2015-16 the average rate of tax paid by people who received one million pounds in taxable income and gains was just 35 per cent: the same as someone earning £100,000. But one in four of these paid 45 per cent – close to the top rate – whilst another quarter paid less than 30 per cent overall. One in ten paid just 11 per cent—the same as someone earning £15,000. The rich, it seems, are not all in it together.

These low rates are not driven by complex tax avoidance schemes; they’re part of how our system is designed. Where you get your money from (or at least how you package it) matters, because investment income and capital gains are taxed at lower rates than income from work. What’s more, as the National Audit Office recently highlighted, the government offers tax reliefs claimed to incentivise activities like entrepreneurship, without actually checking whether they achieve these aims.

The fact that you return back to the PAYE use case means you are not looking at those who generate their wealth through other means, exactly as intended.

I will leave this point with you, again from the article above:

We published the final Wealth Tax Commission report in December 2020, with the recommendation that, if the government chooses to raise taxes as part of its response to the COVID-19 crisis, it should implement a one-off wealth tax in preference to increasing taxes on work or spending. A one-off wealth tax on millionaire couples paid at one per cent a year for five years, we found, would raise £260 billion.

and lastly, Rishi Sunak paid effective tax rate of 23% on £2.2m income in 2023, roughly the same as an average nurse earning £37,000. You would find this perfectly acceptable I presume?

Labour should commission a root & branch reform of the tax system for high net worth individuals and large corporates to make the playing field a bit more level.