UK & EU Agree Post-Brexit Trade Deal

[heero_yuy]

Quote from Damien:

Although he doesn't have a vote, it's more notable simply because all living PMs have spoke out or expressed concerns about the bill

All of whom are remain supporters, May being the closet one, so no surprise that they would take the EU side against their own country.

(I don't know if the non-living PMs have expressed any concerns).

I'm sure if you dug up Heath he'd parrot the same.

[Kushan]

Why does holding your country to a standard mean you're supporting the EU?

Is it not possible to support your own country while demanding better of your own government? Is it not possible to expect your Prime Minister to not break the law?

It's almost as if it's useful for someone, somewhere that we fight amongst ourselves deciding who to blame rather than paying closer attention to what's going on right under our noses.

Blame the EU all you want, but the EU didn't force us to make that agreement, BoJo did. Blame him for signing a bad deal and having to live with the consequences.

Otherwise, stop rabbiting on to remainers to get over it and respect the vote. You get to pick one, but not both - either what was agreed was agreed, or it wasn't.

I have accepted the vote, why can't people accept the WA?

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

All of whom are remain supporters, May being the closet one, so no surprise that they would take the EU side against their own country.

There are leavers who think this is a bad idea too. Boris Johnson can't wrap himself in the flag to get away with all criticism of what he does by trying to pretend it's against Britain rather than his actions.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by Kushan

Why does holding your country to a standard mean you're supporting the EU?

Is it not possible to support your own country while demanding better of your own government? Is it not possible to expect your Prime Minister to not break the law?

It's almost as if it's useful for someone, somewhere that we fight amongst ourselves deciding who to blame rather than paying closer attention to what's going on right under our noses.

Blame the EU all you want, but the EU didn't force us to make that agreement, BoJo did. Blame him for signing a bad deal and having to live with the consequences.

Otherwise, stop rabbiting on to remainers to get over it and respect the vote. You get to pick one, but not both - either what was agreed was agreed, or it wasn't.

I have accepted the vote, why can't people accept the WA?

They seem to want their cake and eat it as l have accepted the vote as this is an Withdrawal agreement that
-he negotiated
-he agreed to it.
-he called it 'oven-ready'.
-he campaigned on it.
-for which he won a general election mandate, and
-that he transposed into law on a three-line whip
-His agreement
-He owns it

[Sephiroth]

I am in no doubt that the Guvmin has acted stupidly by being so forthright as to bring the legislation into being (still in debate though) this early.

I am also in no doubt that the Guvmin's fears are justified on the basis of Barnier's reported threats.

The correct way of handling this would have been to prepare emergency legislation in the event that the fears materialised . The UK's case would be stronger at an internaional court and the EU would be the perceived baddies and not us.

Remainers have no defence bleating that the Guvmin shouldn't have signed up to the WA terms if it didn't like them. The WA is a vehicle for leaving the EU according to the electorate's votes. Remainers should also acknowledge the validity of the point being made by the Guvmin that an extreme interpretation by the EU of the WA would put the UK into grave peril as far as integrity is concerned.

By all means a shot across the EU's bows, but turning us into pariah status to any degree is not right.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

All of whom are remain supporters, May being the closet one, so no surprise that they would take the EU side against their own country.

You can crticise poor government without taking the side of another bloc. That's what democracy is all about.

The remain theory also falls apart when we look at some others who have criticised the amendment:
- Geoffrey Cox
- Michael Howard
- Norman Lamont

All leavers. I think they would firmly put you in your place if you said that they were taking the EU side.

Plenty of people warned us that Boris and his cabinet are incompetent so this mess should not surprise us.

---------- Post added at 11:02 ---------- Previous post was at 10:58 ----------

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

I am in no doubt that the Guvmin has acted stupidly by being so forthright as to bring the legislation into being (still in debate though) this early.

I am also in no doubt that the Guvmin's fears are justified on the basis of Barnier's reported threats.

The correct way of handling this would have been to prepare emergency legislation in the event that the fears materialised . The UK's case would be stronger at an internaional court and the EU would be the perceived baddies and not us.

Remainers have no defence bleating that the Guvmin shouldn't have signed up to the WA terms if it didn't like them. The WA is a vehicle for leaving the EU according to the electorate's votes. Remainers should also acknowledge the validity of the point being made by the Guvmin that an extreme interpretation by the EU of the WA would put the UK into grave peril as far as integrity is concerned.

By all means a shot across the EU's bows, but turning us into pariah status to any degree is not right.

There's a perfectly good appeals mechanism which the Government can call upon if it has any issues with the Withdrawal Agreement before taking any drastic steps.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Kushan

Why does holding your country to a standard mean you're supporting the EU?

Is it not possible to support your own country while demanding better of your own government? Is it not possible to expect your Prime Minister to not break the law?

It's almost as if it's useful for someone, somewhere that we fight amongst ourselves deciding who to blame rather than paying closer attention to what's going on right under our noses.

Blame the EU all you want, but the EU didn't force us to make that agreement, BoJo did. Blame him for signing a bad deal and having to live with the consequences.

Otherwise, stop rabbiting on to remainers to get over it and respect the vote. You get to pick one, but not both - either what was agreed was agreed, or it wasn't.

I have accepted the vote, why can't people accept the WA?

This really riles me (as if anyone cares).

Surely you recognise that the feared adverse consequences (EU putting an extreme interpretation on the WA) would be bad for the UK. Do you?

I'll await your response, which I hope will be direct to the questio, before commenting further.



---------- Post added at 11:09 ---------- Previous post was at 11:07 ----------

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

You can crticise poor government without taking the side of another bloc. That's what democracy is all about.

The remain theory also falls apart when we look at some others who have criticised the amendment:
- Geoffrey Cox
- Michael Howard
- Norman Lamont

All leavers. I think they would firmly put you in your place if you said that they were taking the EU side.

Plenty of people warned us that Boris and his cabinet are incompetent so this mess should not surprise us.

---------- Post added at 11:02 ---------- Previous post was at 10:58 ----------


There's a perfectly good appeals mechanism which the Government can call upon if it has any issues with the Withdrawal Agreement before taking any drastic steps.

Is it "perfectly good"? The moment that an incident occurs threatening the UK's integrity, the Guvmin must act and not suffer the procrastination of the appeals mechanism.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

[COLOR="Blue"]
Is it "perfectly good"? The moment that an incident occurs threatening the UK's integrity, the Guvmin must act and not suffer the procrastination of the appeals mechanism.

Um, that's not what we signed up to Seph. If we don't use the appeals mechaism then why have it there in the first place?

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Kushan

Why does holding your country to a standard mean you're supporting the EU?

Is it not possible to support your own country while demanding better of your own government? Is it not possible to expect your Prime Minister to not break the law?

It's almost as if it's useful for someone, somewhere that we fight amongst ourselves deciding who to blame rather than paying closer attention to what's going on right under our noses.

Blame the EU all you want, but the EU didn't force us to make that agreement, BoJo did. Blame him for signing a bad deal and having to live with the consequences.

Otherwise, stop rabbiting on to remainers to get over it and respect the vote. You get to pick one, but not both - either what was agreed was agreed, or it wasn't.

I have accepted the vote, why can't people accept the WA?

What were the alternatives to accepting the WA? Remember the NI protocol was meant to be a "backstop" in the event of nothing further being agreed, not something that definitely was going to happen. Introduction of this proposed law WON'T break any law "unless and until" a specific action is taken with it.
The NI protocol also places commitments on the EU, NONE OF WHICH have been adhered to. Eg Have the Joint committee agreed to anything that allows goods to move from GB to NI? It is the EU. NOT the UK threatening a hard border.
This is from just a month ago and has several things that require a decision by the Joint Committee which hasn't agreed any of that. Even sending a letter from GB to NI would be blocked.

4.6 Non-freight

Any requirements for goods in luggage, Royal Mail and parcels are still under consideration. Further guidance will be set out in due course.

And cigarettes.

12.6 Tobacco and e-cigarette products

These products will have to comply with the EU Tobacco Products Directive and packaging will need to feature the EU picture library.
To be sold in Northern Ireland, a notification will need to be made. Discussions with the EU are still on going on how this process will take place and further guidance will follow

From Political Declaration.

73. Within the context of the overall economic partnership the Parties should establish a new
fisheries agreement on, inter alia, access to waters and quota shares.
74. The Parties will use their best endeavours to conclude and ratify their new fisheries
agreement by 1 July 2020 in order for it to be in place in time to be used for determining
fishing opportunities for the first year after the transition period.

So fishing rights are NOT meant to be central to any deal, but a SEPARATE agreement.

Originally Posted by Kushan

Why does holding your country to a standard mean you're supporting the EU?

Is it not possible to support your own country while demanding better of your own government? Is it not possible to expect your Prime Minister to not break the law?

It's almost as if it's useful for someone, somewhere that we fight amongst ourselves deciding who to blame rather than paying closer attention to what's going on right under our noses.

Blame the EU all you want, but the EU didn't force us to make that agreement, BoJo did. Blame him for signing a bad deal and having to live with the consequences.

Otherwise, stop rabbiting on to remainers to get over it and respect the vote. You get to pick one, but not both - either what was agreed was agreed, or it wasn't.

I have accepted the vote, why can't people accept the WA?

For a start, wind your neck in and stop telling others to be quiet.

The WA has been highlighted to have flaws, the NI Protocol being one of them, the EU have clearly breached a legal obligation to act in good faith during the process of this WA negotiations, that not bother you?

No, of course not, you Remainers cannot see past your EU rose tinted spectacles. The EU are at fault here, they are the ones who cannot accept we chose to leave their corrupted and cretinous empire and now want to punish the UK by giving us the worst possible arrangement, or none at all just to get back at us.

As a Brexiteer, I was quite happy to accept an agreement and the EU to continue without us being a member and we made a trade pact that was acceptable to all, now I want that disgusting project to fail and fail badly, it is a power hungry and disgraceful entity that pretends to be a Democratic institution, i.e the "Keep on voting" until we get the result we want mantra. Well they can stuff off now.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mick

For a start, wind your neck in and stop telling others to be quiet.

The WA has been highlighted to have flaws, the NI Protocol being one of them, the EU have clearly breached a legal obligation to act in good faith during the process of this WA negotiations, that not bother you?

No, of course not, you Remainers cannot see past your EU rose tinted spectacles. The EU are at fault here, they are the ones who cannot accept we chose to leave their corrupted and cretinous empire and now want to punish the UK by giving us the worst possible arrangement, or none at all just to get back at us.

Boris signed the deal for the UK. If you've belatedly got an issue with it, pick it up with him.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Boris signed the deal for the UK. If you've belatedly got an issue with it, pick it up with him.

You wind your neck in as well.

I have absolutely no need to pick it up with Boris, he's seen the flaw and is now correcting it via the Internal Market Bill, I couldn't give a shit if it breaks International Law, the EU has little respect for it, so you and others stop being hypocrites about following International Law when your "precious EU" doesn't do the same.

[Kushan]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

[COLOR="Blue"]This really riles me (as if anyone cares).

Surely you recognise that the feared adverse consequences (EU putting an extreme interpretation on the WA) would be bad for the UK. Do you?

I'll await your response, which I hope will be direct to the questio, before commenting further.

Of course I recognise that it'd be bad for the UK. I recognised that leaving the EU in any capacity would be bad for the UK, but we wanted that sovreignty, right?

You can't tell remainers who were screaming until they were blue in the face that "this is a terrible idea and the UK will suffer for it" to get over it, then do a shocked pikachu face when it turns out that this whole thing is bad for the UK.

You were warned that this would happen. Much like Boris was warned that this would happen.



The only difference is that I'm not blaming the EU for this, I'm blaming the government that made the agreement. This agreement that Boris tried to ram through the last parliament, that he wouldnt let people scruitinise in any meaningful way. Remember that mess? We had a whole election over it.

Maybe if there was more scruitny of the WA, more people could have been warned, but that wasn't on the agenda, that wasn't allowed, we just wanted to "Get Brexit done", without any oversight, without any regard for the consequences and now the consequences are ramping up.

You have to respect the vote, though, accept it, remember? The EU didn't cause this, the government and by extension we - ourselves - we did this.

Originally Posted by nomadking

What were the alternatives to accepting the WA?

Tossing it back and saying "this isn't good enough, either give us an alternative or we walk away". Remember, no deal is better than a bad deal, right?

---------- Post added at 12:22 ---------- Previous post was at 12:17 ----------

Originally Posted by Mick

For a start, wind your neck in and stop telling others to be quiet.

2 things:

1) Is this an official doctrine/warning as a moderator on this forum, or just your opinion as a brexiteer?

2) I'm not telling anyone to be quiet.

Originally Posted by Mick

he WA has been highlighted to have flaws, the NI Protocol being one of them

This was highlighted way back in January, before anything was signed. Shouldn't have signed it if it had such a legal flaw in it.

Originally Posted by Kushan

Of course I recognise that it'd be bad for the UK. I recognised that leaving the EU in any capacity would be bad for the UK, but we wanted that sovreignty, right?

You are now just taking the piss, here we go again with this crap about "we the remainers were right about leaving", it's utter bollocks, if it has escaped your attention, because of the last four years of Remainiac MPs in the last parliament trying to thwart Brexit, trying to cancel one of the largest democratic processes in this country. Because of this dither and deliberate delay from the Remainiac MPs - We are still in a transitional phase of Brexit, we trying to negotiate an arrangement with the EU still.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Kushan

This was highlighted way back in January, before anything was signed. Shouldn't have signed it if it had such a legal flaw in it.

Exactly. Theresa May's deal was better but Boris's ego wouldn't allow him to keep it intact. Instead, he called criticism at the time Project Fear whilst rolling over and letting the EU tickle his tummy.

Back in February 2018, Theresa May rejected the EU’s proposal for Northern Ireland to remain aligned with the Republic after Brexit, insisting “no United Kingdom prime minister could ever agree to it”. Unfortunately, BoJo did.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8232631.html