Coronavirus

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Priceless, Chris.

Our remainer contributors are strangely silent, it seems.

The reality of Brexit will provide other examples such as this one which will ultimately get many more remainers on board with the whole idea of our new relationship with the EU, as the hard liners increasingly try to defend the indefensible.

[spiderplant]

Originally Posted by tweetiepooh

Do we have some scheme of driver handover or just bring over the trailer and hook up to UK unit this side? (Would have advantage of no left hand units here but really hard to implement.)

It's a mix. AIUI, most freight comes in unaccompanied containers. Some is unaccompanied trailers, and some (mostly time-critical) comes with a driver.

https://www.lloydsloadinglist.com/fr...m#.YBk1tFjgphE

[Sephiroth]

@jonbxx

Another one for you, Jon.

This is about CV mutations having regard for the Kent and SA variants.

AXIOM
A person has been vaccinated and antibodies are ready to work.

HYPOTHESIS
Let's say that this person comes into transmitted contact with someone carrying the SA variant and that the vaccinated person is now a carrier further spreading the virus.

Now, the carried virus is doing battle with the antibodies and mutates in a manner that can defeat the antibodies.

Is that right? If so, we are right up shit creek if the Guvmin doesn't curtail international arrivals.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

@jonbxx

Another one for you, Jon.

This is about CV mutations having regard for the Kent and SA variants.

AXIOM
A person has been vaccinated and antibodies are ready to work.

HYPOTHESIS
Let's say that this person comes into transmitted contact with someone carrying the SA variant and that the vaccinated person is now a carrier further spreading the virus.

Now, the carried virus is doing battle with the antibodies and mutates in a manner that can defeat the antibodies.

Is that right? If so, we are right up shit creek if the Guvmin doesn't curtail international arrivals.

There is a period between picking up the virus and becoming infectious. It is within that period that the immune system should deal with it, so the person never becomes infectious and is unable to spread it.
Transference by surface contacts is another matter.

[1andrew1]

More good news in the global battle against Covid.

So, It Turns Out The Russian Vaccine Works ...
In December, mass vaccinations with Sputnik V started in Russia, even though it is still undergoing the late-stage trial.
Now interim analysis of phase 3 of the trial, published by The Lancet, suggest the vaccine offers 91.6% efficacy against coronavirus – higher than that provided by AstraZeneca (60%), Johnson & Johnson (single shot, at 66%) and Novavax (89%)

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coron...cid=spartanntp

---------- Post added at 13:19 ---------- Previous post was at 12:53 ----------

Poland will only deploy the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine on 18- to 60-year-olds,
Michael Dworczyk, the top aide to the prime minister said, on the advice of the country's Medical Council.
Germany's vaccine committee, STIKO, has issued the same advice.

[daveeb]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Our remainer contributors are strangely silent, it seems.

The reality of Brexit will provide other examples such as this one which will ultimately get many more remainers on board with the whole idea of our new relationship with the EU, as the hard liners increasingly try to defend the indefensible.

No great surprise that the EU can be as ruthless as the UK when it comes to self interest, in a specific and limited way naturally. To be fair they did do an amazingly fast U turn on the decision that even Bojo would have been proud of.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Our remainer contributors are strangely silent, it seems.

The reality of Brexit will provide other examples such as this one which will ultimately get many more remainers on board with the whole idea of our new relationship with the EU, as the hard liners increasingly try to defend the indefensible.

There is no such thing as a "hard line" remainer. There's people who voted remain in 2016. There's also people unsurprised if the EU acts in the interests of the EU, and not the UK.

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by Sephiroth

@jonbxx

Another one for you, Jon.

This is about CV mutations having regard for the Kent and SA variants.

AXIOM
A person has been vaccinated and antibodies are ready to work.

HYPOTHESIS
Let's say that this person comes into transmitted contact with someone carrying the SA variant and that the vaccinated person is now a carrier further spreading the virus.

Now, the carried virus is doing battle with the antibodies and mutates in a manner that can defeat the antibodies.

Is that right? If so, we are right up shit creek if the Guvmin doesn't curtail international arrivals.

OK, as Nomadking said, when you get infected, there will be a while where the amount of virus in your system is so low that you to all intents and purposes would not be infectious. If you have been vaccinated (or had a disease before) there will be a low number of antibodies floating around. The antibodies do two things - they can bind on the virus in this case anywhere that they recognise and act as a marker for immune cells to destroy the virus. This marking will make the immune system more active and you will produce more antibodies.

The second thing antibodies can do is block the virus. If the antibody binds to the 'Receptor Binding Domain' (RBD) of the virus, this will stop the virus getting in to cells and stop any infection. This is why mutations to the RBD are worrying as you could lose this neutralising' effect. You see names of mutations which have a letter, three numbers and another letter. This tells you what part of the protein has changed and what to. TECHY BIT - So the 'UK mutation' N501Y changes an asparagine amino acid at position 501 to a tyrosine.

Anything in positions roughly 319 to 541 is worrying as you could lose that blocking effect. The South African variant has changes at 417, 484 and 501 which could be fun!

Worst case is that a vaccinated individual antibodies won't recognise the variants at all but data so far shows that does seem to be the case. Even if you lost the neutralising effect completely, there will be antibodies against other bits of the spike as some bits are more variable than others. What seems to be seen is a lower response and this needs to be looked at with care. When your immune system is activated, you have a LOT of antibodies and T-cells up and running. It would be like being hit in the head with a 15lb or a 20lb sledgehammer - 25% less weight but still going to do you in

Originally Posted by jfman

There is no such thing as a "hard line" remainer. There's people who voted remain in 2016. There's also people unsurprised if the EU acts in the interests of the EU, and not the UK.

I think your comment about the EU acting in the interests of the EU is spectacularly lacking in nuance. I imagine the Irish government would hope there is at least some overlap between their interests, and those of the EU...

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Chris

I think your comment about the EU acting in the interests of the EU is spectacularly lacking in nuance. I imagine the Irish government would hope there is at least some overlap between their interests, and those of the EU...

It’s not always possible. I’m sure the interests of the EU and successive Governments of, and arguably the people of, Greece have significantly diverged over time.

There will always be contention between Member States.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by daveeb

No great surprise that the EU can be as ruthless as the UK when it comes to self interest, in a specific and limited way naturally. To be fair they did do an amazingly fast U turn on the decision that even Bojo would have been proud of.

Why on earth did the EU think the UK would sneak things in via NI?
Their regulation wasn't legal in the first place. They can't invoke article 16 until a situation and it's effects, actually occur and are ongoing. They also have to tell the Joint Committee and the UK beforehand, and give one month's notice.
They are not allowed to invoke it on the basis of a purely theoretical and unlikely risk.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by jonbxx

OK, as Nomadking said, when you get infected, there will be a while where the amount of virus in your system is so low that you to all intents and purposes would not be infectious. If you have been vaccinated (or had a disease before) there will be a low number of antibodies floating around. The antibodies do two things - they can bind on the virus in this case anywhere that they recognise and act as a marker for immune cells to destroy the virus. This marking will make the immune system more active and you will produce more antibodies.

The second thing antibodies can do is block the virus. If the antibody binds to the 'Receptor Binding Domain' (RBD) of the virus, this will stop the virus getting in to cells and stop any infection. This is why mutations to the RBD are worrying as you could lose this neutralising' effect. You see names of mutations which have a letter, three numbers and another letter. This tells you what part of the protein has changed and what to. TECHY BIT - So the 'UK mutation' N501Y changes an asparagine amino acid at position 501 to a tyrosine.

Anything in positions roughly 319 to 541 is worrying as you could lose that blocking effect. The South African variant has changes at 417, 484 and 501 which could be fun!

Worst case is that a vaccinated individual antibodies won't recognise the variants at all but data so far shows that does seem to be the case. Even if you lost the neutralising effect completely, there will be antibodies against other bits of the spike as some bits are more variable than others. What seems to be seen is a lower response and this needs to be looked at with care. When your immune system is activated, you have a LOT of antibodies and T-cells up and running. It would be like being hit in the head with a 15lb or a 20lb sledgehammer - 25% less weight but still going to do you in

Thanks Jon.

So the simple answer to my question is:

The CV arriving at "the person" will not mutate as a result of meeting the antibodies nor will that person be infectious.

Have I got it?

[daveeb]

Originally Posted by nomadking

Why on earth did the EU think the UK would sneak things in via NI?
Their regulation wasn't legal in the first place. They can't invoke article 16 until a situation and it's effects, actually occur and are ongoing. They also have to tell the Joint Committee and the UK beforehand, and give one month's notice.
They are not allowed to invoke it on the basis of a purely theoretical and unlikely risk.

I don't know, you would have to ask the EU. They made a bad decision then made a U turn, which is better than trying to bluster it out.

[Angua]

RIP Sir Tom.

Originally Posted by jfman

It’s not always possible. I’m sure the interests of the EU and successive Governments of, and arguably the people of, Greece have significantly diverged over time.

There will always be contention between Member States.

If nothing else, this episode has made them have a look at how commissioners can be ousted from their role. One of the changes that is needed and will be sorted by the member states.

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Angua

If nothing else, this episode has made them have a look at how commissioners can be ousted from their role. One of the changes that is needed and will be sorted by the member states.

The Commission is, rightly or wrongly, one of the key features that makes the EU a political entity in it’s own right as opposed to merely a council of nations. Although I agree it’s a perceived weakness of democratic accountability due to being detached from citizens.

I’ll note we are somewhat digressing from topic and happy to leave the EU aside.